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600NL- Playing outside my bankroll 600NL- Playing outside my bankroll

08-02-2008 , 07:51 PM
I don't have the actual hand history as its on my laptop, but only the exact bet sizes may be wrong.

I normally play 200NL, but I'll take shots if I see a juicy game. I had only been at this table for a couple orbits, but 3 of the 5 players had made some spewy plays, including both villians in this hand.
Reads :
UTG- Fairly loose pre, opening 25% of the hands I had seen, always to $15. THe only hand we had played together was an orbit when before I opened AQs in the CO and he 3 bet from the bb. I called, and called a half pot bet on a QQ4r board. He c/c 3/4 pot on a 6 turn, and then donk/folded the T river.
BTN- He had been coldcalling a lot of raises pre, and opening maybe 20% of hands himself. I can't remember the exact hand, but he had made a really bad bluff a few hands before, calling 2 streets on a drawy board then firing on the river.

On to the hand in question:
BTN has $600, UTG has $450, I cover

UTG makes it his usual 15, Hero calls with AQo in the CO, BTN calls and the blinds fold

Flop ($54) Q54
UTG checks, Hero bets 35, BTN calls, UTG folds

Turn ($124) 5 Hero bets 80, BTN raises to 200, Hero calls

River ($454)9 Hero checks, BTN bets 324

On the river button had about 420 left, but only bet ~320 of it. How is my line up until now, and call/fold river?

edit: I did not have the ace of hearts
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-02-2008 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpickles31
UTG- Fairly loose pre, opening 25% of the hands I had seen, always to $15.


3bet pre
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by c_hoop
3bet pre
One thing I didn't mention; although utg had opened a lot, he had folded to every 3bet so far. So I think that although 3betting is definitely not wrong here, I like flatting better because I felt like he would fold all of the AJ, AT, KQ type hands that I dominate and only call with better.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 03:18 AM
His line looks exactly like a 5, I would C/f river
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 03:31 AM
All draws missed and I am calling the river here. If he peeled with a 5 on the flop, good for him.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 04:48 AM
Yea, I'm not sure if he calls the flop with a 5 there since it wasn't the pfr who did the betting.

And yea, the draws did miss, but other than like 67hh, does he raise that turn with a draw?
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:02 AM
I don't mind preflop but think 3betting is better anyway

as played this is so awful. He's repping the nuts with his call-minraise-pot line. But there aren't that many nuts available. I guess I fold the river.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:38 AM
If you saw him make a bad bluff on the river, probably I make the call here
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 08:53 AM
if he is spewy i would never fold
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 11:01 AM
fold turn
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some9
I don't mind preflop but think 3betting is better anyway

as played this is so awful. He's repping the nuts with his call-minraise-pot line. But there aren't that many nuts available. I guess I fold the river.
Yea, I thought he was pretty well only repping a 5, cause a set would almost definitely raise that flop. I thought he might semi bluff the turn with hearts though because usually my hand is at best a strong queen, and I almost never have a 5.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:12 PM
rr preflop its not even close
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKratzer
fold turn
Yeah.

If I call turn I'm pretty much snapping the river though.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 06:06 PM
I'd actually fold the turn

Bad players will flat the flop with 2p+ to try to keep UTG in the hand. And if they flat the flop with a draw, they almost never raise the turn. Obviously 5x is very consistent with his line too, and this line (flat flop/raise turn) is > TPTK a high % of the time from weak players.

Also, if you do call his raise, you are going to be oop facing a river bet ~100% of the time, and since you think this is tough on the best river card....
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKratzer
fold turn
I think it's true. Donks like this didn't representing 5 here with draw if he wants to raise with draw he'd def do this on the flop and this turn his raise looks like a 5 and if he is passive we can fold w\o being bluffed.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by c_hoop
3bet pre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some9
I don't mind preflop but think 3betting is better anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnycff
rr preflop its not even close
Why? I don't get it.

It seems that the OP is saying that whilst the villain has a wide opening range he actually has a pretty tight range for playing in 3 bet pots. So, by raising AQ here you're probably committing your money vs a range that likely dominates you.

It sounds like villain is probably folding too much to 3-bets, so I guess 3-betting him will probably show a profit in a vacuum. So, depending on villain's propensity to call or 4-bet when not folding facing a 3-bet, it seems to me that you'd be better off 3-balling with 72o or 78s and just cold calling with AQ. That way you still get the profit from his tendency to fold to 3-bets too much. However, you don't have to do it at the expense of giving up the opportunity to play a pot in position vs a bad player with a hand that dominates good portion of his range.

Genuinely, I suck at teh poker. I don't see why this is an obvious 3-bet pf, so tell me why I'm thinking about this wrong...
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 06:14 PM
OP, I think you need to make your plan on the turn. He's rarely going to c/r here and not fire on the river. So, you either need to fold turn or call the river. Calling the turn and then folding the river, particularly a total blank like this, seems pretty bad.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoolyHat
OP, I think you need to make your plan on the turn. He's rarely going to c/r here and not fire on the river. So, you either need to fold turn or call the river. Calling the turn and then folding the river, particularly a total blank like this, seems pretty bad.
Yea, I did call the turn intending to call a river bet, just wanted to make sure that was an ok way to play it. FWIW he was as spewy as I thought and showed 86hh, but I think against any decent player I should have folded the turn.
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote
08-03-2008 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Yeah.

If I call turn I'm pretty much snapping the river though.
yup fold turn or snap river, to call the turn and fold the river is admitting that you made a mistake by not folding the turn
600NL- Playing outside my bankroll Quote

      
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