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 - River straight. 3bet for value?  - River straight. 3bet for value?

02-06-2009 , 09:04 PM
Villain hasn't really done this at all before so I don't know what it means. Am I ever really getting value here by raising?

Poker Stars $6.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 2 players - View hand 30578
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t1995 M = 26.60
BTN/SB: t1005 M = 13.40

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BB with 6 8
BTN/SB calls t25, Hero checks

Flop: (t100) J 7 K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks

Turn: (t100) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks

River: (t100) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets t100, BTN/SB raises to t200, Hero ???
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-06-2009 , 09:22 PM
u either 3 bet light and fold to a reraise.....or you just call which is std imo
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-06-2009 , 10:56 PM
i had the exact same spot last month, board 8TQ64 and i had 75 (but no diamonds) and just shoved the river for an overbet over his minraise, villain snapped with QQ

it's the third blindlevel, so some kind of read would be nice: do you think he bets flop/turn with diamonds? is he capable of limping a hand like KK?
i don't think you'll see a higher straight here a lot tbh, maybe diamonds, but 2 pair or a set are a big part of his range; i might consider a shove if villain won't lay down two pair, reraise/folding seems really weird with stacksizes, maybe if you minraise it back? i probably shove if he's bad
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 12:50 AM
Villain will very very rarely have a flush here, and if you do happen to lose to a flush, you can certainly take note of how poorly he played it, and only lucked out on the river to get any value at all, but it's tough to know what worse hands are going to call, since you're much more likely to have a flush than villain. A raise is probably safe most of the time, but just calling isn't horrible, I don't think.
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 02:38 AM
im shoving here i think
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 02:44 AM
+1 for a shove here. Villains in general at $6 games will snap off pretty light in this spot.
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 04:51 AM
I just called and villain showed down with some garbage like two pair or something like that. Without trying to be results oriented I guess shoving is probably best here at this level. I just called since A) the minraise seemed like the type that some donk sitting on a flush or a higher straight (since a couple other straights beat mine) and was afraid to "scare me off" or something. I also just thought that I was only really getting called by a shove with better hands here since this board's so scary and there seemed to be a few hands that had me beat. Personally in his spot I would probably never call a shove with anything worse than the straight I had so I didn't think I would get any value here, but I have to realize that these players won't play like me and will be calling down with a lot of worse hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNixon
Villain will very very rarely have a flush here, and if you do happen to lose to a flush, you can certainly take note of how poorly he played it, and only lucked out on the river to get any value at all, but it's tough to know what worse hands are going to call, since you're much more likely to have a flush than villain. A raise is probably safe most of the time, but just calling isn't horrible, I don't think.
I don't see how this would be all that useful to me and definitely don't think that I should be making a decision and just thinking "well, regardless, I'll just found out what he has hear and take note of it." These are HU SNG's at a level with a huge player pool. I doubt I'll ever play him again.
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 05:43 AM
Shove-----get called by loads of worse hands

villain types "river rat"----std.
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 05:57 AM
Quote:
I don't see how this would be all that useful to me and definitely don't think that I should be making a decision and just thinking "well, regardless, I'll just found out what he has hear and take note of it." These are HU SNG's at a level with a huge player pool. I doubt I'll ever play him again.
You have to get into the habit of making notes anyway..........

And you might play him at 10s 20s etc, you get just the same bad play at these levels, trust me
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 11:14 AM
I think you guys are being too quick on ruling out hands like flushes and straights against 6 dollar opponents.

I regularly see "limp, check, check, raise river" type lines with hands like aces in these games, not to mention other hands like straights and flushes slowplayed in ways that make me scratch my head.

It's ok to put less emphasis on some of those hands that are ahead of you bc they'd have to be played badly, but bad play is what the 6s are all about, you need to acknowledge and assign them some decent % in my mind bc they do show up, and not just out of the blue.
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 11:43 AM
i'm still shoving because he aint folding a hand better than KQ here imo
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All_or_Nothing
You have to get into the habit of making notes anyway..........

And you might play him at 10s 20s etc, you get just the same bad play at these levels, trust me
I guess I kind of worded that wrong. My point was more-so that I should shove (or make whatever play) and not worry about it just because if it was the wrong play I can take note of it. In a cash game it might be more useful since I can just reload and keep playing him, but it's a lot different in micro SNGs where the player pool is so huge.
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by renegades8
I guess I kind of worded that wrong. My point was more-so that I should shove (or make whatever play) and not worry about it just because if it was the wrong play I can take note of it. In a cash game it might be more useful since I can just reload and keep playing him, but it's a lot different in micro SNGs where the player pool is so huge.
I didn't exactly say "shove, and don't worry about it because you learned something". In fact, I didn't really say anything even close to that. Just that flushes are unlikely enough (although you can't discount them entirely, ala ChicagoRy) that if he does happen to have one, oh well.

Also, if you lose this hand, the match isn't over. So if he does show up with a flush, you have actually learned something useful that you may be able to put to use later in the match, regardless of whether you ever see him again or not.

A minraise in this spot is going to be 2 pair a LOT though, with villain generally thinking something along the lines of "gee, I have 2 pair, which is a pretty good hand, so I want him to put more chips in the pot, but the board is kinda scary, so I'll just minraise".
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
A) the minraise seemed like the type that some donk sitting on a flush or a higher straight (since a couple other straights beat mine) and was afraid to "scare me off" or something.
QT and flushes are shoving over your bet way more often than not at this level. Typical villain isn't thinking "I don't want to scare him off", they're thinking "omfg I have a HUGE hand, ShooOOOooOOOOoooOOOve!"
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote
02-07-2009 , 09:31 PM
This is definately a shove.. I really seriously doubt he has a flush here, even though Chry made a really goo point about this possibility... You could even consider minraising him back here, which i do sometimes with strong, non-nut hands which i think a shove will only be called by nuts. In this case though im pretty sure he's not folding 2 pair, so shoving is best...
 - River straight. 3bet for value? Quote

      
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