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5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games 5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games

07-16-2016 , 12:38 AM
    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (BTN): $7.78 (155.6 bb)
    SB: $7.11 (142.2 bb)
    BB: $15.49 (309.8 bb)
    UTG: $10.89 (217.8 bb)
    MP: $7.54 (150.8 bb)
    CO: $12.89 (257.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with J A
    UTG raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20, 2 folds

    Flop: ($0.47) 9 8 8 (2 players)
    UTG bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.76, UTG raises to $2.60




    lolwtf?

    UTG should have close to zero 8's in his range, and 99 would want me to catch up. Plus he has pocketpairs he would want to realize the equity of.

    Honestly what is happening and what is the play here?
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 12:41 AM
    just call the flop but fold to the raise. no point investing half your stack here.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 02:26 AM
    instead of being in denial about losing in "these games" step back for a second, drop the ego, and accept that you are probably making misplays left and right and are not as good as you think. If you are losing at any limit over a respectable sample size then there is no denying that you aren't yet good enough to beat that limit. You don't just have to be beating the fish, you have to be absolutely annihilating them in order to beat rake. That, and you have to be on par with the regs. im saying this because i speak from experience. When I switched to cash games I couldn't beat 10NL for quite some time. I felt like I was way better than all the fish and thought i played great. After constantly having more downswings than upswings I realized that I had to step back, drop the ego, and realize that I have more work to do before I will crush micro stakes. Having an entitled mentality leads to tilt. Until you have beat these stakes over a large sample then you cant just assume that you are crushing them and getting unlucky. I'm not trying to be condescending. analyze your game without entitled bias and understand that if you don't shake this mentality you will probably end up quitting poker instead of deciding to spend hours studying to start winning.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 02:32 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Waaario69
    instead of being in denial about losing in "these games" step back for a second, drop the ego, and accept that you are probably making misplays left and right and are not as good as you think. If you are losing at any limit over a respectable sample size then there is no denying that you aren't yet good enough to beat that limit. You don't just have to be beating the fish, you have to be absolutely annihilating them in order to beat rake. That, and you have to be on par with the regs. im saying this because i speak from experience. When I switched to cash games I couldn't beat 10NL for quite some time. I felt like I was way better than all the fish and thought i played great. After constantly having more downswings than upswings I realized that I had to step back, drop the ego, and realize that I have more work to do before I will crush micro stakes. Having an entitled mentality leads to tilt. Until you have beat these stakes over a large sample then you cant just assume that you are crushing them and getting unlucky. I'm not trying to be condescending. analyze your game without entitled bias and understand that if you don't shake this mentality you will probably end up quitting poker instead of deciding to spend hours studying to start winning.
    +1

    I think everyone can relate to this.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 02:38 AM
    As for the hand, there is absolutely no need to reraise OTF. What are you targetting with this reraise? This is not a good spot to semibluff. This reraise basically only plays well against villains worse flush draws. Villain certainly has plenty of 8x suited connectors and one gappers in his opening range. OTF you can gladly call to keep villains range really wide. By reraising you narrow villains range down to very strong value hands and bluffs and this is not how you want to play your nut flush draw.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 04:16 AM
    You can call flop or reraise just note that by reraising you're representing [QQ,87s] which is narrow but Villain might 3-bet flop with some [AA,KK,QQ] i.e. no diamond and [87s,combodraws] so I'm thinking I would jam flop as played
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 08:28 AM
    "UTG should have close to zero 8's in his range"
    the irony
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 08:34 AM
    You need to learn to think in a different way.
    What does...

    1. fold acomplish
    2. call acomplish
    3. raise acomplish

    1. fold is out of discussion here, since we have 2 OC+ NFD. Enough equity to continue.

    2. Call will acomplish that his range will be wide OTT since all of his Bluffs are in his range here and he will probably fire a sec barrel, especially on a A since it will hit his range pretty well.

    3. Raise will fold out all his bluffs and keep his value range in, b putting in our half stack we are nearly pot commitet. Only Drawing dead against 88/99.

    Just a short stimulation.
    Hope it helps you.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 08:36 AM
    Others already touched on this, but to really make it explicit: your reasoning that he doesn't have a lot of 8x, and would want you to catch up if he had 99, applies just as much to your range.

    You are repping exactly the sort of hand you have... a flush draw.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 11:23 AM
    Ok I understand now that villian would assume the standard 5nl player doesn't have many 8s either.

    The reason I assumed I would have way more 8s is because I call things like 109o,98o, A8 from the button. I do this because regs at 5nl don't triple barrel properly, and I get to realize my equity in position or bluff

    Last edited by herp-derp-shove; 07-16-2016 at 11:35 AM.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 11:38 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Waaario69
    instead of being in denial about losing in "these games" step back for a second, drop the ego, and accept that you are probably making misplays left and right and are not as good as you think. If you are losing at any limit over a respectable sample size then there is no denying that you aren't yet good enough to beat that limit. You don't just have to be beating the fish, you have to be absolutely annihilating them in order to beat rake. That, and you have to be on par with the regs. im saying this because i speak from experience. When I switched to cash games I couldn't beat 10NL for quite some time. I felt like I was way better than all the fish and thought i played great. After constantly having more downswings than upswings I realized that I had to step back, drop the ego, and realize that I have more work to do before I will crush micro stakes. Having an entitled mentality leads to tilt. Until you have beat these stakes over a large sample then you cant just assume that you are crushing them and getting unlucky. I'm not trying to be condescending. analyze your game without entitled bias and understand that if you don't shake this mentality you will probably end up quitting poker instead of deciding to spend hours studying to start winning.
    +100 my respek
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 11:42 AM
    i have been at 2 znl forever i win there, but i cant beat 5znl (yet)
    def on denial about my skills
    350k hands up $55 (16nl and below)
    how much time should i be studying per week?
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 11:44 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herp-derp-shove
    Ok I understand now that villian would assume the standard 5nl player doesn't have many 8s either.

    The reason I assumed I would have way more 8s is because I call things like 109o,98o, A8 from the button. I do this because regs at 5nl don't triple barrel properly, and I get to realize my equity in position or bluff
    98o is horrible call. Even A8s is close to fold.
    No wonder you are losing this is very basic leak.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 11:44 AM
    As for the hand...
    As played I jam
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 11:54 AM
    i dont like calling 98o vs utg or anyone
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 12:14 PM
    until people fire a double barrel > ~75% of the time, and call rivers more often, I can play ATC in position
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 12:50 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herp-derp-shove
    until people fire a double barrel > ~75% of the time, and call rivers more often, I can play ATC in position
    Wonders how he can't beat the limit. Plays ATC in position. K then.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 01:00 PM
    wat
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 01:50 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herp-derp-shove
    until people fire a double barrel > ~75% of the time, and call rivers more often, I can play ATC in position
    do you coach?
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 03:53 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herp-derp-shove
    until people fire a double barrel > ~75% of the time, and call rivers more often, I can play ATC in position
    "I don't understand how I'm losing in these games"

    Story checks out.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 03:54 PM
    Even accepting that (which I don't), if you're flatting super wide on the button to exploit their lack of barrelling then you should obviously be floating draws much more than raising them.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 04:10 PM
    Just call and let worse fd:s build the pot drawing dead.
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote
    07-16-2016 , 04:37 PM
    if you are losing in zoom, play 6 max reg
    5NL Zoom seriously ******ed hand, I don't understand how I'm losing in these games Quote

          
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