For some reason I always start off sessions really well, then seem to just run really bad for the second half of the session. I guess maybe I get tired and start playing bad, but I don't think that's likely as it feels like I get more into it and play better if anything. Anyway, here are my last 3 sessions at 5nl (no editing or filtering or anything, they always look just like this)







And here is my lifetime 5nl graph (I say lifetime, I only started a couple of weeks ago)



Could this just be variance? I'm yet to experience a session where I've actually ended up more than a BI.

I think that as our sessions go on, we can't help but fatigue...especially if we get into a lot of spots. For a week or so, just have a goal of playing shorter sessions (say 1k hands) and see how that works out for you.

I've never played at NL5, but I don't think it should be that swingy. Do you play looser and call down lighter once you are up a couple of buy-ins?

Boy, this looks like my stats... I attribute my failures on calling too much and push too hard in very marginal spots. Oh, I also have poor table selection practices.

I would kill for this kind of session right now. At least they imply some sort of winning before the downswing.

this is super common, OP. filter your results in PT to show you only the second half of your session, then compare that to the first half. this will be a good start to keying in on why this keeps happening.

i think we all tend to loosen up a bit as we go on in a session, especially if we're winning. i know i damn well still do it regardless if i want to admit it or not.

It´s not a very big sample size, but maybe you start tilting and don´t even know it. Play shorter sessions with breaks in between and see if you notice any difference.

This and/or try playing fewer tables, especially if you've only been playing for a couple of weeks.

Hey Jude, Nick here. I'm 100% sure that these are your leaks. We both play a tag style but I don't push all in as much as you do. Remember how I reacted when you shoved a flush draw with 2 overs? I don't think that is needed at the levels we play. Also, you call down too much (ace high has no showdown value!) and you don't table select that well (I only sit at tables with 2 shorties or less).

You're the only guy I've ever seen who has a WTSD $ at 43% or something like that. Thats uber weird at micro levels. That prolly means that you call down too much, or triple barrel too much.

Iflatthenuts FTW!

WTSD% is usually around 19-25% .. 43% is usually suicide.

sorry I'm using my phone now so I can't check pt3. I'm referring to the term used that says won $ at showdown. Don't know what the abbreviation is W$SD or something like that. Iflatthenuts' is 43% if I'm not wrong. Mine along with most others is closer to 60%.

If your money won at show down percentage is 60%, then you are loosing value by folding too much. You would need to start to calling down ligher.

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. Like sircuddles says, 2nl and 5nl is about Fat value. We have to take down showdowns with TPTK or better and get full value out of it because others cannot fold TPGK or TPWK. If you have a Won$ at showdown value thats less than 50%, that means that you have to make money by bluffing and bluffing at our level is not profitable.

Iflatthenuts and I sweated each other and our graphs are completely different. He loses money at showdowns and has a very high positive won $ at non-showdown graph. Mine as he says, is standard 2+2 tag which is a positive showdown graph and a negative non-showdown graph.

The way to tell whether you go to showdown too much or too little is to have a look at WTSD % IMO.

Oh by the way Jude, I'm on a heater, finally. Yay

You would need a much larger sample of sessions to compare to judge whether or not this is some sort of "fatigue." I would call the time distribution of these small downswings purely variance without very good reason to believe that your play is becoming severely worse toward the end of sessions.

You should consider posting some hands from your end-of-session downswings, as a start.

stop if you are head

[X] problem solved.

I'd like to add that 10k breakeven stretches are totally standard. I've had my share (and more) of 40-50k hand stretches.

i like martink's advice, try it sometime

FYP

If there are fish that you keep winning off, keep playing as long as you are winning is profitable!

In the first 2, it looks like you're getting tired after about 1000 hands.

On the second one, 1500 hands.

Try shorter sessions (stop at 1000 hands) and see if those charts look any prettier?

Thanks for all the respones everyone. Since then I played 1 session intending to stop after 7 or 800 hands. I did stop, but by then I was down 4 BIs Anyway, I'll try again tomorrow.. here are my stats, I'm not sure if they show anything.



Blackchilli: I'm working on the leaks I know I have, but I'm not sure that's the reason for the downswings at the end of the sessions. Meh, I'll keep working away at it. I'll also post some big hands that I'm losing towards the end of sessions, as someone suggested.

As soon as I looked I found one disgustingly spewy hand that I played towards the end of a session. I literally have no idea what I was trying to do...

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($9.19)
SB ($5)
BB ($1)
UTG ($7.23)
UTG+1 ($9.04)
MP1 ($2)
MP2 ($5)
CO ($6.21)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
2 folds, MP1 checks, 1 fold, CO bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.62) A, 2, 4 (2 players)
CO bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.42) 10 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $0.80, CO calls $0.80

River: ($3.02) 8 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $2, CO calls $2

Total pot: $7.02 | Rake: $0.46

More spew....

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($12.86)
CO ($5)
Button ($5)
SB ($5.23)
BB ($10.62)
Hero (UTG) ($6.58)
UTG+1 ($5.81)
MP1 ($2.38)
MP2 ($8.92)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10, 10
Hero bets $0.15, 6 folds, SB raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.05) Q, A, 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.75, SB calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.55) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, SB raises to $3.98 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $6.05 | Rake: $0.40


But then again.. I just spew quite alot in general... Here is a hand from the start of the session.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($6.12)
Button ($4.57)
SB ($1)
BB ($4.80)
UTG ($0.86)
UTG+1 ($5.89)
MP1 ($1.22)
Hero (MP2) ($5)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6, 6
3 folds, Hero bets $0.15, CO calls $0.15, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.37) 4, K, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, CO calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.77) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.55, CO calls $0.55

River: ($1.87) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, CO calls $1.25

Total pot: $4.37 | Rake: $0.29

Results:
Hero had 6, 6 (one pair, sixes).
CO had J, J (one pair, Jacks).
Outcome: CO won $4.08

MEH, maybe if I just play better, it won't matter if I play slightly less good towards the end of the sessions.

EDIT: In the 2nd graph, the massive downswing before the small upswing was caused by these:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($6.91)
Button ($1.93)
Hero (SB) ($5)
BB ($5.19)
UTG ($5)
UTG+1 ($2.09)
MP1 ($5.33)
MP2 ($3.45)
MP3 ($6.04)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K
2 folds, MP1 bets $0.20, 3 folds, Button calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.65, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.45, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.55) 6, 7, A (2 players)
Hero bets $0.85, MP1 raises to $4.68 (All-In), Hero calls $3.50 (All-In)

Turn: ($10.25) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($10.25) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $10.25 | Rake: $0.68

Results:
Hero had A, K (two pair, Aces and sevens).
MP1 had A, A (full house, Aces over sevens).
Outcome: MP1 won $9.57

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($5.02)
Hero (CO) ($12.76)
Button ($4.24)
SB ($3.12)
BB ($4.75)
UTG ($4.84)
UTG+1 ($0.68)
MP1 ($1.27)
MP2 ($4.32)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, J
5 folds, Hero bets $0.15, Button raises to $0.25, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.77) Q, 8, 5 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $0.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.37) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

River: ($2.97) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2, Hero folds

Total pot: $2.97 | Rake: $0.19

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($1.44)
UTG+1 ($7.64)
MP1 ($5.33)
Hero (MP2) ($5)
MP3 ($7.16)
CO ($5.70)
Button ($2.70)
SB ($4.68)
BB ($5.54)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.20, 3 folds, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold, UTG raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.09 (All-In)

Flop: ($3.13) 4, 4, 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($3.13) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($3.13) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $3.13 | Rake: $0.20

Results:
UTG had A, A (two pair, Aces and fours).
Hero had A, K (one pair, fours).
Outcome: UTG won $2.93

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($2.01)
SB ($7.14)
BB ($5)
Hero (UTG) ($5.12)
UTG+1 ($7.17)
MP1 ($5.08)
MP2 ($1.80)
MP3 ($4.76)
CO ($6.27)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, A
Hero bets $0.15, 4 folds, CO calls $0.15, Button calls $0.15, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.52) J, 9, 8 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.35, CO calls $0.35, Button calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.57) A (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, Button calls $0.95

River: ($4.22) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.35, Button calls $0.31 (All-In)

Total pot: $4.84 | Rake: $0.32

Results:
Button had J, A (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Hero had Q, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Button won $4.52

and that sort of stuff...

No need to get fancy at 5NL. That's srs FPS.

don't do hand/money goals..try this...

Play when: tables are good (for you)+you feel good

Take a break immedietly for just a few to 10 minutes:
Once you feel Tilt (and reverse tilt)
You look at a hand you are involved in and don't remember if you were the PF raiser or caller
You feel like you made a bad call (PF/Flop)
You just tried a ******ed bluff

Breaks are fine...then once you feel settle come back and play but make sure the tables are good:

If you still feel off then: Quit or drop down two levels if you just want to play..

Here is another tip. Once in a while I am like "I am done" then I see a huge whale and like "I have to stay now"....don't keep your marginal tables open just because you are "a 12 tabler", keep the whale table open and like 2-4 more (just enough that you don't get completely bored), but you can follow ever action on the whale table.

The other thing I do, is when I decide I am done, I AM DONE...I don't play until my blinds, I sit out on every table and just play the hand I am involved with...but pretty abc.

Am I the only one who thinks that playing more than 1000 or 1500 hands in a single session is overkill? Don't play 15 tables or don't play for 5hrs straight...take a break your probably fried. My guess is you want to keep winning so your press hard in spots that are marginally break even or -ev....

Jude, seems like you're trying to push too many people of their holdings. You might have that 'downswing' at the end of your session because you're getting cranky and tired etc.

I think it was King Spew who told me, 'donkey, play less tables and earn more'. That was good advice for me and I cut down from 8 to 4. I think each of my sessions are only about 400 hands. Anymore than that and I start watching youtube.

Wanna sweat again?