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12-25-2015 , 07:12 PM

#51

sewktbk

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 247

Imo popkek, that range is too narrow and makes one in fact play his cards face up way too often.

If it makes you comfortable thats fine, but i do believe such a tight 3bet range isnt advantageous.

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12-25-2015 , 07:15 PM

#52

PopKek

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by sewktbk

Imo popkek, that range is too narrow and makes one in fact play his cards face up way too often.

If it makes you comfortable thats fine, but i do believe such a tight 3bet range isnt advantageous.

I'm pretty sure that having a tight 3bet range against UTG is fine.

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12-25-2015 , 07:59 PM

#53

Nirwanda

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,699

Quote:

Originally Posted by sewktbk

Notice how the "betting for information" comes last? The main reason for betting is value. Getting information is just a bonus.

You're not even betting for value, which you invertedly admitted when you contradicted yourself earlier.

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Originally Posted by sewktbk

At this point, it seems useless and maybe even stupid to try to make you see another angle.

Touché.

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Originally Posted by sewktbk

See you at the tables.

Pretty sure we'll never sit on the same table.

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12-25-2015 , 08:02 PM

#54

sewktbk

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 247

Quote:

Originally Posted by PopKek

I'm pretty sure that having a tight 3bet range against UTG is fine.

That depends what you define as "fine".

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12-25-2015 , 08:17 PM

#55

sewktbk

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirwanda

You're not even betting for value, which you invertedly admitted when you contradicted yourself earlier.

Touché.

Pretty sure we'll never sit on the same table.

Lol ok, your highness. Would you feel even better about yourself if I told you i was annoyed or something? You seem to need some sort of reason to pat yourself on the back here, so let me know how i can help

Last edited by sewktbk; 12-25-2015 at 08:29 PM.

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12-25-2015 , 08:52 PM

#56

Bladesman87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by pechkin

if villain got aj only 3 jacks are left thats what im sayin

Why would anyone be check/raising AJ?

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12-25-2015 , 09:40 PM

#57

mahsjdi

veteran

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 2,432

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirwanda

Pretty sure we'll never sit on the same table.

HAHAHAHA BURNED!
Probably true. I also agree 3b is bad pre martimc basically summed it up, you gona get into alot of -ev spots. Interesting discussion though. Always like the more experienced players going into detail.

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12-25-2015 , 09:56 PM

#58

lvr

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,743

never folding post
never 3bing pre
I won't even 3bet qq here 100% of the time

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12-25-2015 , 10:11 PM

#59

Chilisaus

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 184

3betting TT here would be such a waste

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12-25-2015 , 10:21 PM

#60

MartimC

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 6,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by PopKek

I'm pretty sure that having a tight 3bet range against UTG is fine.

yes, and it's not fine, it's optimal...

widen your value range vs a tight RFI range just not gonna work, and has nothing to do with loldon'tbeanit

can get away till MSNL only 3betting AA/KK and QQ some % in the BB vs UTG and don't even have to worry about not having bluffs, most regs won't know how to exploit you period and will do the same mistakes vs a 2%(unbalanced)/ 3%(balanced) 3bet range.. obviously random numbers, that will most likely not be correct, its just to make my point

Last edited by MartimC; 12-25-2015 at 10:27 PM.

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12-25-2015 , 10:41 PM

#61

PopKek

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartimC

I guess this answers sewktbk on what I mean by fine, huehue

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12-25-2015 , 10:44 PM

#62

sewktbk

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 247

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12-26-2015 , 06:35 AM

#63

cardbrute

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,555

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahsjdi

Was about to post the same thing. it's hard to go into detail becsue there's generally a large number of flow on effects for doing and not doing things. As pointed out you'll get the counter arguments which will then need to lead to even further explanations. The poster that's still disagreeing will largely not agree anyway out of spite or not understand making it a huge waste of time.

It's also even more difficult since you've got people playing uNL attempting to maximise value every spot (nothing at all wrong with this) and others playing SSNL and MSNL trying to explain how and why actions are bad as part of a more balanced approach.

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12-26-2015 , 06:45 AM

#64

Swedishmonkey

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,713

Your small flopraise is a mistake. You raised to small.

That mistake also leads to him calling with a lot more KQ-combinations.

So as played you have to fold because of that.

Beat by AA and KQ.

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12-26-2015 , 08:58 AM

#65

alaggso

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardbrute

I like the idea of focusing our aggression as suggested by @sewktbk.

I don't expect 3betting TT against an UTG open is bad at NL5 but regardless we don't need to deviate from solid ABC to exploit villains tendencies.

How often and what hands should aspiring solid aggressive heros use to widen their 3betting range to exploit 5NL villains who fold too much?

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12-26-2015 , 09:46 AM

#66

MartimC

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 6,639

if they fold too much , 3beting TT is gonna be even worse

and your question seems like a standart misconception of uNL regs , who want to play a more laggy style pre flop and end up over attacking really tight ranges , which can only lead to bleed money long term.. 3beting something like AA/KK/56s should give you a balanced range if you're interested in that from these positions, but you can go with w/e hands you feel like , just gotta be careful with your frequencies.. even if he has a high fold 3bet , that doesn't mean that he's gonna have an high fold to 3bet when he raises UTG, esp if his RFI is something like 10%.. just something to think of

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12-26-2015 , 11:11 AM

#67

kafrinius

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 157

pre C is ok
If you want to x/raise for value here ... go bigger on F.
I Prefer x/call on this F texture and x raise later.

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12-26-2015 , 10:48 PM

#68

lvr

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,743

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartimC

if they fold too much , 3beting TT is gonna be even worse

and your question seems like a standart misconception of uNL regs , who want to play a more laggy style pre flop and end up over attacking really tight ranges , which can only lead to bleed money long term.. 3beting something like AA/KK/56s should give you a balanced range if you're interested in that from these positions, but you can go with w/e hands you feel like , just gotta be careful with your frequencies.. even if he has a high fold 3bet , that doesn't mean that he's gonna have an high fold to 3bet when he raises UTG, esp if his RFI is something like 10%.. just something to think of

On point as always

Every new player wants to be the God playing 40/38/15

All about stroking that epeen instead of making that money

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