Hi all,

5NL Rush FR

Just wanted some opinions on the following situation, i cant find the hand history on this one but it's more situational anyway.

Say you 3 bet an early/mid pos. 3BB bet from BB/SB with KK/AA or even QQ, and the flop comes down raggedy. You fire out 4/5 or 3/4 pot bet and get min raised (keeping in mind the pot is getting big at this stage), do you shove fold or call? Please also keep in mind that players here are mostly LAGtards here.

The alarm bells are ringing that he's probably got a set. Calling i dont think is an option anyway as a check on the turn would almost certainly be up against a shove.

What's the best option here?

Best regards,

Mista Live

I should also mention the flop came something like 953 rainbow.

I mash the call button repeatedly. He's doing this with all pocket pairs.

I'd shove for sure. On NL5 people are raising flop with anything, folding a strong overpair would be a crime. He's raise/calling with TT+ and probably any TP hand, maybe even some draws.

Why are you afraid of a set? If he limping in MP and calling your raise pre, I would be more concerned. But I think my money is still going in.

Sorry, i completely got this wrong, mis-remembered. It actually happened like this:

I min raised .10 UTG with KK, UTG+2 min 3bet me to .15, i then proceeded to 4bet him to .45, he calls. Everything else played out the same way. Calling would mean stacking.

It turns out he had pocket 5s and hit trips, i stacked off. Villain had approx. 70BB in his stack. Would it have been better to fold when he min raised the flop?

Er. Don't minraise oop with KK pre, and ship all flops.

You dont think is a good idea to min raise UTG at this level? I've always done so and it's been quite successful, apart from the odd occasion. I dont like to play for big pots OOP, 3BB UTG always with KK/AA? I tend to min raise AA/KK/AK/AQs and all pocket pairs from UTG. I dont like limping at all, with anything, it's just so exploitable. With a min raise UTG with small pocket pairs, people will rarely 3bet you and not put you on small pocket pairs. Whenever i see someone limp from early position, i almost always put them on small pocket pairs, raise them in position and take the pot away from them on the flop. Obviously i fold to any sign of real strength.

Last question on this topic, would you say it's always wise to stack off OOP with KK on a flop with no A, no 3 to a straight or flush?

I think minraising is always awful. You're either giving the other guy odds to draw or you're not maximising your value. In this case, a minraise gives sets perfect odds to draw. Raise bigger oop. Don't be afraid of big pots as long as you have a strong hand oop. In this case, even after a 4bet, he still gets decent odds to setmine, which really shouldn't be the case. By the time 2 players go to the flop after a 4bet, they should usually be potcommitted.

That's villain dependent, and also dependent on the stack sizes and the pot size. If say I raise to 4BB pre utg with KK, face a 3bet to 10BB from the button, and i 4bet to 25 - 30BB, and effective stacks are 100BB each, i'm stacking off.

Thanks for the feedback Titan, it's much appreciated. I think i agree with you about the min raising, it's not something i've always done but has been somewhat of an experiment. What i have found though is it has enabled me to call 3bets lighter from LAGtards who have position, for example when i have AQs/AK or any pocket pair. So maybe i'll just min raise from early pos. with everything apart from AA-KK (maybe also AK/QQ/JJ). What do you think?

The thing is, i like to keep my raising amounts the same at each position, however i guess it doesn't matter too much at rush as no one really notices. But as most people here seem to be maniac LAGtards, i'm careful to play hands out of position, especially AK / QQ-lower as it's not too difficult for them to outdraw me. I also dont like stacking off regularly with just a pair against people who are going to play like maniacs and outdraw me a lot. I'm not saying that i'm passive, but careful to get good value and information from my betting.

EDIT: Thinking about it, i shouldn't really min raise with AK or QQ from UTG, but what about JJ-99? Also, do you think 4BB raise is better UTG with premium hands at this level? My thinking is, if i raise heavy UTG, i'm only going to get called/raised by strong hands. If i rasie 2-3BBs, i'm getting called by worse hands a lot, which end up paying me off a lot of the time. I dont want to scare people off and just win the blinds with premium hands. I've noticed i dont really get called by more than one person very often with a min raise UTG, especially when i've got 300BB+.

Anyone got any further thoughts on the below? I'd be really grateful to get some feedback on this.

Instead of min raising from EP, over raise to attain better SPR.

I actually posted this at an end of a previous thread but think it should be a new one. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Min raising UTG is not something i've always done but has been somewhat of an experiment. What i have found though is it has enabled me to call 3bets lighter from LAGtards who have position, for example when i have AQs/AK or any pocket pair. But is it better to raise 3-4BB UTG with AA-KK (maybe also AK/QQ/JJ)? What do you think?

The thing is, i like to keep my raising amounts the same at each position, however i guess it doesn't matter too much at rush as no one really notices. But as most people at rush tables seem to be maniac LAGtards, i'm careful to play hands out of position. I also dont like stacking off regularly with just a pair against people who are going to play like maniacs and outdraw me a lot. I'm not saying that i'm passive, but careful to get good value and information from my betting.

If indeed a 3-4BB raise UTG with AA/KK/AK/QQ is correct, what about JJ-99? Also, do you think 4BB raise is better UTG with premium hands at this level? My thinking is, if i raise heavy UTG, i'm only going to get called/raised by strong hands. If i rasie 2-3BBs, i'm getting called by worse hands a lot, which end up paying me off a lot of the time. My post-flop play is pretty decent. I dont want to scare people off and just win the blinds with premium hands. I've noticed i dont really get called by more than one person very often with a min raise UTG, especially when i've got 300BB+.

Any ideas?

But aren't i just going to scare most people away and only win the blinds? If i over raise 4-5BB UTG, i'm only ever going to get called/raised by strong hands. I would be happy if i have AA vs KK or lower, but it's not going to happen often enough. What if i hold AK-QQ, isn't this going to be bad in the long run? Only winning blinds and playing pots against strong/stronger hands OOP?

imo preflop minraise is good to (a) build a multi-way pot with IO hands and (b) see a flop against frequent 3betters.

B is true mostly because people in the micros are so piss-poor at sizing their 3bets. A is true because you are likely to get more callers with a minraise than a standard raise.

AA/KK imo are a poor choice of hands to minraise OOP with. You don't have any interest in either playing a multi-way pot or calling a 3bet.

BTW: This is 5NL Rush FR

Sorry about some posting mistakes, i'm quite new here. I will make sure i put the stake information in my subject lines from now on.

And its two threads on essentially the same subject. I'm going to combine them.

I think you are absolutely right, 3BB raise UTG with AA/KK/QQ/AK, everything else is going to be a min raise. What about AQs, JJ, 99? Remember i'm playing maniacs that 3bet VERY lightly in position. The only thing i dont like about this is in a normal ring game, it's giving information away, but for rush it should be fine. i dont like to vary my raising amounts due to my cards in a normal ring game, i only change my raising amount due to position. If i were to keep to this rule, i wouldn't be able to play certain hands in a normal ring game without giving away information. Even at rush, people can still notice your different raising amounts if you are regular vs regular.

What is your goal for the hand? What are you opponents likely to do? How will they alter their play based on your raise size?


Mixing up your play just a little bit will help with this. If a reg sees you minraise UTG with 55 and 88 then make a bigger raise with AA, and the next time you have 66 and make a bigger raise... its likely he will adjust improperly.

My goal is to essentially take the pot away from them on the flop, or if i hit, to get paid. My opponents are likely to either 3bet me in position, float the flop and try bluff me on the turn if i check, but they'll probably fold to a second barrel if they dont have much, but i really hate firing second barrels OOP when i've not got at least TP. I often find i get 3bet more often if i raise 3BB UTG but oddly enough only get called with a min raise, and often not by more than one player usually. I know it seems a bit strange, i guess they always assume i'm min raising with AA/KK to lure them in, when sometimes it's 22-QQ/AK/AQs.


This makes a lot of sense, especially in a normal ring game. Obviously i cant count on this in rush. I think i know what to do, but i'm still going to be inclined to min raise UTG with hands like JJ-lower, and possibly AK/AQs, but i'm still unsure about this.