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5nl HU is this a call? 5nl HU is this a call?

04-26-2012 , 09:23 AM
    IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12750752

    SB: $10.23 (511.5 bb)
    Hero (BB): $5.33 (266.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q K
    SB raises to $0.10, Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.20

    Flop: ($0.60) 3 T K (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.30, SB raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.20

    Turn: ($3.60) J (2 players)
    Hero checks, SB bets $8.43 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.53 and is all-in

    River: ($10.66) 2 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $10.66 pot ($0.71 rake)
    Final Board: 3 T K J 2
    SB showed T T and won $9.95 ($4.62 net)
    Hero mucked Q K and lost (-$5.33 net)



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    No specific reads on the oponent at this time yet later to learn hes never bluff jammin not even semi bluffin jam.

    We have ~20% equity to anything bar straight and a set and still ~16% vs straight and set

    its $3.53 to call into $10.66 which is ~3 to 1 .. 30% therefore we need to be good ~10% of the time for this to be a call right? You think this is a standard call?
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 09:27 AM
    your maths is wrong

    this is an easy fold
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 10:56 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eoin16
    your maths is wrong

    this is an easy fold
    can you correct it
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 11:12 AM
    Don't think you're ever good nor that a bluff/draw would raise that big on the flop.
    A player that limp isn't likely to be aggro postflop.
    Muck it on the flop unless you got a good read.
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 11:23 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fredron
    Don't think you're ever good nor that a bluff/draw would raise that big on the flop.
    A player that limp isn't likely to be aggro postflop.
    Muck it on the flop unless you got a good read.
    Where did you get that information from? Who said anything about him limping lol
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 11:24 AM
    Can some one correct my maths plz
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 11:56 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adoyal
    Where did you get that information from? Who said anything about him limping lol
    Sorry I didn't realize the stakes and assumed it was a limp and not a raise.
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 12:11 PM
    You need 3.53/10.66 = 33% equity. You got that bit right, then you said we need to be good 10% of the time. Don't know why you divided the 33% by 3.

    To clarify you need to have 33% equity to call. You can see by the equities you've given yourself that you have to fold, unless those are wrong and he's jamming super wide which is very unlikely.
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 12:40 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Khal Drogo
    You need 3.53/10.66 = 33% equity. You got that bit right, then you said we need to be good 10% of the time. Don't know why you divided the 33% by 3.

    To clarify you need to have 33% equity to call. You can see by the equities you've given yourself that you have to fold, unless those are wrong and he's jamming super wide which is very unlikely.
    I said we need ~10% because we have 8 outs to the nuts and 2 K which could be live which gives us ~20% equity.. So if he has Air here or A10 AJ type hands or worse 10% of the time its a call right?

    I meant my pair of Kings needs only to be good ~10% of the time because ~20% + ~10% = 30% right?

    ... 3.53/10.66 = 33.11% equity

    - vs random (air) we have 85% equity

    - vs bottom of villians value range QQ,AJo-ATo we have 89% equity

    - vs 2pair hands: KJs-KTs,K3s,JTs,KJo-KTo,K3o,JTo we have 33% equity

    - vs overpair: AA we have 18% equity

    - vs sets: KK,JJ-TT,33 we have 18% equity

    - vs nuts of villians range: AQ & Q9 we have 5.5% equity

    So vs the whole of his top range KK,JJ-TT,33,KJs-KTs,K3s,JTs,AQo,KJo-KTo,K3o,Q9o,JTo we have 21.4% equity.

    33.11-21.4 = 11.71%

    What I was saying is, isnt this a call if 11.71% of the time he has the bottom end of his value range or air in this spot? Which i think a lot of villians do in this spot? only ~12% of the time? Thats why i thought it was a call. And even looking at 2pair hands this is still a call? I think if he shuvs a set here two pair is defo in his range?

    I later learned in this HU match hes never shipping the bottom end of in this spot and this was never a call but to most villians?
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 01:05 PM
    WTF?! I don't even...
    I mean, I just don't even know what you're thinking, so I don't know where to correct that jibberish above.

    Don't know how to put it any simpler:

    We need 33% equity. We have x% equity with KQ vs his range. For a +EV call, we need x > 33.

    Comprende?
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    04-26-2012 , 02:04 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adoyal
    I said we need ~10% because we have 8 outs to the nuts and 2 K which could be live which gives us ~20% equity.. So if he has Air here or A10 AJ type hands or worse 10% of the time its a call right?

    I meant my pair of Kings needs only to be good ~10% of the time because ~20% + ~10% = 30% right?

    ... 3.53/10.66 = 33.11% equity

    - vs random (air) we have 85% equity

    - vs bottom of villians value range QQ,AJo-ATo we have 89% equity

    - vs 2pair hands: KJs-KTs,K3s,JTs,KJo-KTo,K3o,JTo we have 33% equity

    - vs overpair: AA we have 18% equity

    - vs sets: KK,JJ-TT,33 we have 18% equity

    - vs nuts of villians range: AQ & Q9 we have 5.5% equity

    So vs the whole of his top range KK,JJ-TT,33,KJs-KTs,K3s,JTs,AQo,KJo-KTo,K3o,Q9o,JTo we have 21.4% equity.

    33.11-21.4 = 11.71%

    What I was saying is, isnt this a call if 11.71% of the time he has the bottom end of his value range or air in this spot? Which i think a lot of villians do in this spot? only ~12% of the time? Thats why i thought it was a call. And even looking at 2pair hands this is still a call? I think if he shuvs a set here two pair is defo in his range?

    I later learned in this HU match hes never shipping the bottom end of in this spot and this was never a call but to most villians?
    let me explain the real math here because this is wrong

    i should also warn you this may get nerdy but im an engineer so it is most likely right... just saying

    assuming the above % are correct for EV

    the whole top of his range is not going to be a flat out 21.4% (where the **** did you get this number its not even the average) it is going to be equal to the following equation

    [0.33(2pair) + 0.18(overpair) + 0.18(sets) + 0.055(nuts)]/(2pair +sets + nuts) = EV at top of range

    where:
    2pair, overpair, sets, and nuts (variables) are the percentages that he shows up with each of the following hands

    now to calculate your discrepancy (if you should call) we take the similar equation

    [0.33(2pair) + 0.18(overpair) + 0.18(sets) + 0.055(nuts) + 0.85(air) + 0.85(bottom)]/(2pair + sets + nuts + air + bottom) = x

    and if x>0.333 then it is mathematically correct to make the call

    now lets be done with this
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote
    06-11-2012 , 04:15 AM
    I would fold here 100% of the time to an unknown 5 nl player. You should be 3 betting only group one hands AA KK AK until you move up in stakes because the play is so unpredicatble preflop. I created a bankroll by just shoving these hands as a 3bet preflop. Anyways, on the turn you pray that it is a tie when he raises since players raise turns so infrequently at 5nl. The bottom line is you can never learn how to play properly because it's like play money to half the players.
    5nl HU is this a call? Quote

          
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