Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot 5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot

01-19-2013 , 10:08 AM
Villain is 39/31/1.5/0 over 60 hands, no other reads

Are these lines standard, considering villains range? How should the villains stats impact on his range and my bets?


I put him on a pretty wide range, with very little beating me (as anything like QQ+ would 3b me). I'm not raising the river here, just wondering what to think of his river donk



    Full Tilt, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15568821

    UTG: $5.07 (101.4 bb)
    MP: $8.86 (177.2 bb)
    CO: $5.29 (105.8 bb)
    Hero (BTN): $5 (100 bb)
    SB: $5.56 (111.2 bb)
    BB: $7.67 (153.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with K A
    UTG raises to $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.37, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.27

    Flop: ($0.81) A 7 5 (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $0.56, UTG calls $0.56

    Turn: ($1.93) Q (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $1, UTG calls $1

    River: ($3.93) 6 (2 players)
    UTG bets $2, Hero calls $2




    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-19-2013 , 01:54 PM
    pot size:$3.93, u have to call $2 to pick up $3.93.
    2/3.93=50.8%, where u have to be correct apprx 50% or better for ur call on river to Break even.
    think of villains continuance range on flop, which consists alot of FD+SD combos... hands like
    KX,89,34 ,....
    the C/C,C/C, bet river line is usually consist with the nuts at low stakes, so im probably
    40% calling
    60% folding in this spot
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-19-2013 , 02:00 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLove_Below
    pot size:$3.93, u have to call $2 to pick up $3.93.
    2/3.93=50.8%, where u have to be correct apprx 50% or better for ur call on river to Break even.
    think of villains continuance range on flop, which consists alot of FD+SD combos... hands like
    KX,89,34 ,....
    the C/C,C/C, bet river line is usually consist with the nuts at low stakes, so im probably
    40% calling
    60% folding in this spot
    lol



    we get laid $2 into $4 basically, so we get 3:1 and need 25% to breakeven on a call


    when villain flats pre, he has like TT-QQ/AJs+ or something


    he probly check/calls with his entire range. with Ax because he loves his hand and is never folding and pairs because you are cbetting light sometimes.


    Turn, he can XC all Ax again, thats AJ/AK/AQ and also QQ. then river he likely XC with AJ and lead the rest, so your equity on the river isnt enough to call

    )around 20% imo, pretty likely its 0% too (if he xc AK)
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-19-2013 , 02:28 PM
    i think you could have bet bigger otf and ott. also, I just think the way you played your hand proves difficult for me to think that villain is ever bluffing here. i mean, why would villian be 1/2 potting it here as a bluff? it just doesn't seem like the time or place that is really expecting to fold out the strength of your hand in villain's perspective. if you take into account his range, bet size and overall line here, this screams value. what do you do if villain takes a line of c/r turn and lead river?
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-19-2013 , 02:34 PM
    Is villain's standard open 2x pre OP ? Because that would have a major impact on how the hand should have played out.
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-19-2013 , 09:53 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by laptopmang
    i think you could have bet bigger otf and ott. also, I just think the way you played your hand proves difficult for me to think that villain is ever bluffing here. i mean, why would villian be 1/2 potting it here as a bluff? it just doesn't seem like the time or place that is really expecting to fold out the strength of your hand in villain's perspective. if you take into account his range, bet size and overall line here, this screams value. what do you do if villain takes a line of c/r turn and lead river?

    How do you suggest I should have played the hand?

    and i would probably fold against a c/r turn, just because i see this rarely being a bluff/semi-bluff (and i can't beat anything that c/r's for value)
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-20-2013 , 02:18 AM
    Well played. Very standard line. If he didn't donk riv, I hope you were still planning on putting in a vbet (you don't have to jam though, you can halfpot it to widen his calling range)

    Not folding river to a 39/31 if those are his true stats (prob not), he can be blocker betting weaker Ax. Prob better to mention whether you think he's a reg or just a fish (e.g. is he 1tabling or 4tabling?)

    Disagree with someone saying his range is tight like TT+/AQ when he flats your 3bet, I find that a lot of players minraise speculative hands like Axs, suited connectors and PPs.. some just call 3bets hoping to hit.

    I like your plan, folding to a turn c/r seems okay readless even though it feels gross to fold TPTK in a 3bet pot.
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-20-2013 , 07:30 AM
    why is it so gross to fold TPTK in 3b pot?
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-20-2013 , 08:16 AM
    I would 3bet more, around $0.50. But it seems fine
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-20-2013 , 09:07 AM
    I thought his 3bet size was fine, and turn bet should be a bit bigger though. everything else wp.

    river I'd just call though
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-20-2013 , 09:34 AM
    This guys 3b calling range is going to be real wide. Crap like 98s etc.
    As for river donk, most fish tend to donk value hands. I would try to fold but still click call as im a river station and praying that he is block betting worse or missed a very random draw.
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote
    01-30-2013 , 04:20 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dezr
    How do you suggest I should have played the hand?

    and i would probably fold against a c/r turn, just because i see this rarely being a bluff/semi-bluff (and i can't beat anything that c/r's for value)
    sorry i didnt get back to you sooner, been on vacation. as for the hand, after thinking about it a bit, i dont think that your bet-sizing is wrong. i think too often we are going to be seeing villian flatting here with his value hands, regardless, especially when we take into regard it is 5NL.

    as for my suggestions for how you should have played the hand differently. i think you can play it the way you did and fold your AK on the river donk bet. i know it sounds really results-oriented, but i think the line that villain is taking here in relation to your line is that his range will just be weighted too heavily towards value by the time we end up on the river and we find ourselves faced with a donk bet. especially when we begin to ask ourselves these questions: 1. if this was a bluff, would villain choose this bet-sizing?
    2. if this was a bluff, would villain take this line to fold out my perceived range and on this board runout?

    overall, i think the answers to those questions help lead us to the reasons why we can confidently make this fold. sorry, kind of tired right now. hope i clarified my thoughts a little bit. if i didnt holler at me!
    5NL - Extracting value with AK in 3b pot Quote

          
    m