This was at the tail end of a 100+ hand session with the UTG player, and he was very much Aggro fish as his VPIP and PFR indicate. Bluffed with air, limps, calls with garbage - all of the good traits from the aggro fish variety... but then this hand, which was a doozy. Just considering his wide range of hands, I C-Bet the flop, but I wonder now if that's where I screwed up, especially considering that I was oop on each street and it was multi-way... but again, on that same token, the guy was constantly bluffing with air.

Was there any big mistake I made here? I feel like I made the right decisions along the way, but that's just through my own lens. Any other hero might've put more weight on other factors, like position and considering multi-way.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 262.6 BB
UTG (UTG): 310 BB (VPIP: 42.15, PFR: 19.83, 3Bet Preflop: 12.96, Hands: 125)
MP (MP): 182.8 BB (VPIP: 32.00, PFR: 17.33, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 77)
CO (CO): 100 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BTN (BTN): 208.8 BB (VPIP: 31.97, PFR: 21.31, 3Bet Preflop: 2.08, Hands: 124)
SB (SB): 100.4 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Dealt to Hero:


UTG raises to 3.4 BB, MP calls 3.4 BB, CO calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11.2 BB, UTG calls 7.8 BB, MP calls 7.8 BB, CO calls 7.8 BB

Flop (45.2 BB, 4 players):

Hero bets 21.4 BB, UTG calls 21.4 BB, fold, CO calls 21.4 BB

Turn (109.4 BB, 3 players):

Hero bets 52 BB, UTG calls 52 BB, CO calls 52 BB

River (265.4 BB, 3 players):

Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets 15.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 15.4 BB, UTG raises to 225.4 BB and is all-in, fold

UTG wins 296.2 BB

UTG shows:

(Two Pair, Aces and Jacks)
(Pre 71%, Flop 88%, Turn 88%)

CO shows:

(Two Pair, Jacks and Tens)
(Pre 29%, Flop 12%, Turn 12%)

Seems standard.

I cannot see the cards and the board ... Is it just me?

Ugh, annoying. Can't update my op so here it is below. Thanks Andy.

Hero (BB): 262.6 BB
UTG (UTG): 310 BB (VPIP: 42.15, PFR: 19.83, 3Bet Preflop: 12.96, Hands: 125)
MP (MP): 182.8 BB (VPIP: 32.00, PFR: 17.33, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 77)
CO (CO): 100 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BTN (BTN): 208.8 BB (VPIP: 31.97, PFR: 21.31, 3Bet Preflop: 2.08, Hands: 124)
SB (SB): 100.4 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Dealt to Hero: KhKc


UTG raises to 3.4 BB, MP calls 3.4 BB, CO calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11.2 BB, UTG calls 7.8 BB, MP calls 7.8 BB, CO calls 7.8 BB

Flop (45.2 BB, 4 players):Td4hAh

Hero bets 21.4 BB, UTG calls 21.4 BB, fold, CO calls 21.4 BB

Turn (109.4 BB, 3 players):Js

Hero bets 52 BB, UTG calls 52 BB, CO calls 52 BB

River (265.4 BB, 3 players):Jh

Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets 15.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 15.4 BB, UTG raises to 225.4 BB and is all-in, fold

UTG wins 296.2 BB

UTG shows: QhAs

(Two Pair, Aces and Jacks)
(Pre 71%, Flop 88%, Turn 88%)

CO shows:KdTc

(Two Pair, Jacks and Tens)
(Pre 29%, Flop 12%, Turn 12%)

Legendary

3-bet waaaaaay bigger PF. 11.2 BB is fine if somebody opened and it folded to you, but there are two other players in the pot. Two other presumably weak players in the pot. I'm making it at least 18 BB.

As played, easy flop check, then easy turn check, then I guess I play river the same.

What are you trying to accomplish by betting flop?

3-Bettign is something I know I still suck at. Just hasn't come up yet in my studies; focusing more on other fundamentals. I've heard that 3x the last bet is the standard 3-bet size, so I just did that roughly.

I bet the flop as a light c-bet because of how wide opponents ranges are and how they had played hands up to this point.

Does the added gutshot not also boost equity quite a bit?

3x is fine 3bet size but you have to add 1x for every call in between. So a raise and then 2 calls would make it 5x the original raise. You probably should add another 1x if you're out of position as well.

You need to check this flop. There are 4 players in there. Betting will just bloat the pot and leave us in a weird turn spot unsure of how to proceed. When you bet the flop and get called in 2 spots and the turn doesn't bring a heart or a king, I'm done with the hand.

According to your OP, you seem to be hung up on what the UTG player was up to and forgot that there were others in the hand.

Yeah, always go larger as more people enter the pot. And if you're OOP. If somebody opens 3BB PF and it folds to you IP, make it around 9BB. If there's a caller in between you make it 12BB. If there's two callers make it 15BB. If there's two callers and you're in the SB, make it 17-18BB, etc.

I didn't notice we were in the BB when I posted my first response, so going slightly larger than 18BB PF is probably better.


At any rate, there are a lot of problems with betting flop.

Don't forget the purpose of betting. Usually it's to do one of two things -- get value from worse hands, or bluff out better hands. Occasionally people also bring up something about realizing our equity or getting villain to fold their equity but I think it's tertiary to the other two purposes.

Are we betting to get value? Does Tx call a bet? Probably shouldn't. Does a straight draw call a bet? Probably shouldn't. Does a flush draw call a bet? Sure, but we block a lot of them and we're put in a really annoying spot OOP when they do call (or raise), and getting something with 35%+ equity to call isn't a huge win for us.

Are we betting as a bluff? Does Ax fold? They may actually fold some subset of their Ax's, but most of villains' Ax combos are going to continue. They are obviously continuing with two pairs and sets as well.

The problem is made even worse because we're 4-way. This is a pretty clear check to me in most HU spots, but now we add two more people who we aren't getting value from when we bet and we're not bluffing out of the pot when we bet... so what are we accomplishing? It's okay to c/f.

Holy crap. I got so carried away that I didn't even realize there was a fourth player on the flop... now I'm embarrassed. Dynamite, I think you pretty much nailed it. I was totally carried away by being focused on that single player.

Had it been 3 players on the flop, does it make any difference? It'd still be bloating?

I'm having a tough time reconciling all the factors together... and in hindsight, thats probably reason enough to not be so aggressive.

Color me disappointed.

I think it's a check even if we're HU for the reasons I laid out above.

[QUOTE=JamesBJames;53290104]

Lol, is this an inside joke, or something I can get?

Thank you James, appreciate you breaking down the points.

NH well played. Unlucky this time.