5NL AK in 4bet vs donk shove - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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5NL AK in 4bet vs donk shove

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01-08-2014 , 11:55 AM

igySK

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 158

both villains unknown, I can't really call the shove on this board can I?

IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BB: $7.37 (147.4 bb)
UTG: $2.52 (50.4 bb)
MP: $14.04 (280.8 bb)
Hero (CO): $5 (100 bb)
BTN: $4.60 (92 bb)
SB: $13.99 (279.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

UTG folds, MP calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.25, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.70, MP folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $0.80

Flop: ($3.07) 9

(2 players)
BB bets $5.87 and is all-in, Hero folds (3.50 behind)

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01-08-2014 , 11:57 AM

Ohhesdamned

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,882

Flod

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01-08-2014 , 12:03 PM

Deeepz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 5,137

Fdol

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01-08-2014 , 12:05 PM

Lemon93PCTSure

adept

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,104

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01-08-2014 , 12:09 PM

VantACoo-key?

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3,119

Fodl

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01-08-2014 , 12:13 PM

Patje90

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,708

Dolf

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01-08-2014 , 12:22 PM

NeedIt

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 145

with AK here (second to act post F) i would try to commit pre F with 4 bet to 1.90 and on F calling everything

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01-08-2014 , 01:11 PM

MartimC

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 6,639

like they said call

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01-08-2014 , 01:14 PM

Bladesman87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14,543

Clal.

Last edited by Bladesman87; 01-08-2014 at 01:14 PM. Reason: But seriously, dlof

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01-08-2014 , 02:18 PM

#10

LoudPacquiao

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,467

Real question is why u min 4! AK?

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01-08-2014 , 02:26 PM

#11

LoudPacquiao

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,467

Do the math. Do u have 33% vs his range. I would also expect his range to Include more FD hands since u gave him an awesome price by min 4!
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01-08-2014 , 02:26 PM

#12

VantACoo-key?

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3,119

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao

Real question is why u min 4! AK?

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Cuz there's no need to go bigger, especially if we'd ever 4b/f

and this isn't really close to a min 4b

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01-08-2014 , 02:48 PM

#13

LoudPacquiao

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by VantACoo-key?

Cuz there's no need to go bigger, especially if we'd ever 4b/f

and this isn't really close to a min 4b

Yes ur right. It isn't a min 4! But why are we 4! Do we really expect a villain to fold to our sizing?

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01-08-2014 , 02:58 PM

#14

Bladesman87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14,543

Yes we have fold equity, not that we care too much about that.

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01-08-2014 , 03:25 PM

#15

VantACoo-key?

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3,119

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao

Yes ur right. It isn't a min 4! But why are we 4! Do we really expect a villain to fold to our sizing?

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Do we want him to fold?

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01-08-2014 , 04:07 PM

#16

LoudPacquiao

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by VantACoo-key?

Do we want him to fold?

The question is do we want him to call in a 75bb pot where we flop to like 30% of time?

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01-08-2014 , 04:25 PM

#17

Deeepz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 5,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao

The question is do we want him to call in a 75bb pot where we flop to like 30% of time?

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Open shove pre then

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01-08-2014 , 04:59 PM

#18

MartimC

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 6,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deeepz

Open shove pre then

this

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01-08-2014 , 05:32 PM

#19

Bladesman87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao

The question is do we want him to call in a 75bb pot where we flop to like 30% of time?

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Yes.

He won't always shove, and we might consider calling off on some flops. Just not this one.

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01-08-2014 , 05:56 PM

#20

LoudPacquiao

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deeepz

Open shove pre then

That's my point. I'd rather shove than 3! To a number that's likely to get called. Also AK isn't a made hand. When we miss OTF we are behind all pairs and when we hit it's a scare card. In this hand I think shoving is best. With dead money in pot its def +EV
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01-08-2014 , 06:02 PM

#21

MartimC

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 6,639

^never inducing 5bet bluffs = nit

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01-08-2014 , 06:05 PM

#22

Bladesman87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao

If he never folds anything he opens to our raise sizing then that's pretty damn awesome because we beat his range.

What you're saying is pretty much just open shove all value hands because they might hit a flop.

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01-08-2014 , 09:57 PM

#23

LoudPacquiao

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao

No I'm not. But the sizing is getting called by everything the BB 3! Where as if u 4! To $2 u have more FE and can call or jam any flop and have decent EV

With the sizing of hero 4! I would expect him to have KK or AA maybe QQ bc these are hands we want calls with With AK pre we want folds. Its different if we 3! A passive idiot with AK, then yes I want calls. But lol if u are 4! An unknown for value with AKo. Your profit is gonna come from FE and if called we have decent equity post flop

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Sent from my XT1030 using 2+2 Forums

Last edited by LoudPacquiao; 01-08-2014 at 10:02 PM.

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01-08-2014 , 10:02 PM

#24

nozzle

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 228

Flat and play a pot in position with AKo is superior to 4betting here.

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01-09-2014 , 02:35 AM

#25

Barfunkel

veteran

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by VantACoo-key?

Do we want him to fold?

If he has a pair, then yes. When there's enough money in the pot we win more when the opponent folds a flip than we make by playing for stacks preflop, particularly since AKo is behind a pair a bit.

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