ive been experimenting with some SBvBB play.

I find cbetting a hi freq just isnt that great, since i get floated a very high amount, and then they bet turn when checked to.
So i could either pump up my double barrel, or cbet and XR turn... (doesnt seem like a bad option) or i could decrease my cbet %.
decrease the cbet means i need to find a way to get aggressive at some point in the hand tho...

Yatahay Network - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 85 BB
Hero (SB): 97.74 BB
BB: 258.74 BB
UTG: 206.96 BB
MP: 116.18 BB
CO: 211.78 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Td 8d
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop : (6 BB, 2 players) Js Ah 9s
Hero checks, BB bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Turn : (12 BB, 2 players) 9d
Hero checks, BB bets 6 BB, Hero raises to 18 BB

is this just weird? or just bad?

In range bet spots, you should have a high checking frequency on turns, with plenty of top pair being checked, and also some two pair + to mix check calling and check raising vs aggressive regs

This play is fine but I think we want to go a little bigger and more polar on the turn, really punish their top pairs and flush draws. Our check raise frequency on this board on turns shouldnt be that high

Turn XR's are always very polarized so we never go 3x.

I doubt he stabs much 9x OTF - at the same time he should never be stabbing 50% i don't think.

This is just going to be a weak Ax a ton of the time that doesn't fold to your turn XR so we end up shoving a ton of rivers and end up over bluffing.

I'd just fold turn - flop is probably an OB spot as well. Checking this combo seems good OTF but XR vs that weak sizing most of the time.

you can donk on 9x
if not, xf

Can anyone explain why betting this flop is less ev than xr? Or cc

Without a backdoor flush draw, I prefer to bet flop + turn. Like a downbet flop, 3/4 pot turn kind of thing. At least that would be my plan not knowing the turn card yet. It's just solid way to realize the equity of draws OOP while remaining the aggressor. Say the turn was an offsuit 6 or something. People would fold a J or 9 to a double barrel more than you might think.

As played, you could lead turn for 20-25% pot. It's both a blocker bet, and an efficient stab on one of the best possible cards for your range. If they were float betting light, they probably fold now. That's sort of the logic behind the donk stab.

Check/raise turn is potentially too big of a leak. If at all possible, try to avoid making big, uncertain moves. The edge of a good player doesn't come from desperate bluffs right. You can beat these 50c blind players making more concise plays.

Not sure about this exact board, but range check is pretty cool on the flop Sb vs bb. Population tens to overstab and we can check raise with a high frequency.

What if we don’t polarize tho?

The whole premise is that he’s way too sticky/stabby on the flop. So he gets to the turn here with a ton of air. (He might be as wide as K7o, Q2s, 55). And he might just think his best move on the turn there is to double barrel a fair amount of that trash. So we don’t really need to risk all that many chips to get him to fold most of that trash.

If anything, we could go smaller??

I mean, if you’re trying to get him off AX that’s a whole different story tho. Then yeah u gotta polarize and jam the riv. But that’s a very dangerous game that I’m not super interested in playing.

You can donk turn then if you think he has a bunch of trash hands. It's cheaper and better in theory.

We can use whatever size we want but a solver will never go small OTT with the XR. There's just too many assumptions to know if what we are doing is higher EV so I'd just stick with solid theory.

If you did a deep dive analysis on one person and had data to support your assumptions then I could get on board with a specific strategy though.

Flop is a range cbet for 1/4 if we use that sizing.

Highest EV flop play is OB flop though with 25-30% frequency.

I just got done running a very similar board in AQ7tt and compared the results with some other guys in my coaching group so I'm confident that OBing flop is highest EV.

If you start having a low cbet % OOP then people can just range X back vs you as an exploit and you lose a ton of value.

overbetting flop at a low freq makes a lot of sense to me in theory. (AJ+ for value and some straight draws/FDs for bluffs seems about right)
its gonna stop him from floating super wide on the flop.

But isnt our opponent making a mistake by floating super wide on the flop only to stab turn super wide as well?
ideally id like him to make his mistake, and then exploit him for it. if we overbet the flop we never let him make the mistake in the first place...

Yeah,to be clear I was talking about 100% check and not on this board against a population that stabs too much. Watched a good coaching video today on an 832r type of board that looked into 100% check.

I solved a spot recently that was getting 250% pot with 50% frequency and 50% check. It may even have been higher than 250% with one more solve. I wouldn't advocate that as the highest EV spot against the population, but worth knowing and playing around with.

If you play a mixed strategy on the flop and check this one, then usually x/r flop, especially vs incorrect high frequency stab strategies on this board. Want to punish villain for his suboptimal stabbing frequency and sizing here. But occasional x/c is good. The higher you play, the more important mixing of your frequencies becomes with a variety of holdings.

Villain should in theory stab this flop polarised and not have many 9x, and you should have plenty of 9x with a mixed flop strategy so therefore you should have a decent 9x advantage. If you don't play a donking turn strategy, then you want to x/r a lot of your 9x on the turn and T8 should be one of your prime bluffs as it's T high and is one of your highest equity draws on the turn at this point. Sizing needs to be bigger though as you're repping a very strong value range at this point (trips+).

If you are ranging this board then Villain should increase his flop raising range mostly - his calling range won't change much.

It's the same concept if someone is 3betting you way too much - we don't start calling with weaker holdings just because they have weaker holdings. The proper adjustment is to increase your 4betting frequency but keep your calling range the same.

Almost no one knows how to defend vs a 2x pot bet OTF here unless you have specifically studied it. It's not intuitive - i.e. they will make a ton of mistakes vs that sizing.

For example:

Let's say you are in the BB and you have a weak Ax here - do you call?

Or let's say we have KTo?

My guess is that people way overcall vs OB's OTF since they think you have a monster and are getting implied odds, but this is not the case.