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50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? 50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea?

07-15-2009 , 07:21 PM
Villain is 19/16


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+2: $53.85
MP1: $52.55
MP2: $51.85
CO: $50.00
BTN: $48.00
SB: $62.30
Hero (BB): $109.20
UTG: $50.00
UTG+1: $51.10

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with Q T
5 folds, CO raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.25) 7 K 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

Turn: ($11.25) J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $9, Hero raises to $103.70 all in,




This ever a good bluff? The board does look drawy though. And perhaps I should raise and not shove.

Perhaps I need more equity to make these types of plays.

thanks for any help
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:31 PM
i like it
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:44 PM
Why?
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:45 PM
1. when someone bets so big on the turn they usually really like there hand.
2. when some hugely check overshoves it's rarely a monster and looks really bluff. Still though you've got good equity against he range when he does call.
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie
1. when someone bets so big on the turn they usually really like there hand.
2. when some hugely check overshoves it's rarely a monster and looks really bluff. Still though you've got good equity against he range when he does call.
True I guess.


So you would not do this?
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:54 PM
raise/folding this great draw sucks.

calling is bad.

Shoving will get called only by sets.

Punch a baby?
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:57 PM
is it really that big of an overshove though? I mean, just kinda looks that way since 8 has 200plus bb. Anyhow I like it, and if you can pull it with a set at some point too if this gets showed down I like it even better.
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Nilor
Why?
because i think he folds all his one pair hands and u have great equity when called and i think u have FE.
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Nilor
True I guess.


So you would not do this?


According to my quick and dodgy maths you need 38% equity if you shove and get called. You're 30% against a range of sets, A's, KJ's, and AKo. The only hand he will fold here is probaly some AK and even then I don't know how likely that is. What's you're image as well? That's actually really important here.
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 08:02 PM
If you sandbag your sets on the flop and shove 'em on the turn, this is fine.

nh
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-15-2009 , 08:04 PM
My image is like a normal reg I guess.


18/14 ish or so I am not sure
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote
07-16-2009 , 02:08 AM
You have about 30% equity against basically anything (sets, AK, KJ, etc).

If he calls your EV is 70% of -$50, which is -$35. If he folds you win $20 minus rake. So basically, he has to fold about 60% of the time for this move to be profitable.

Let's assign a range that he would be betting $9 with on the turn: {22, 77, KK, JJ, KJs, KJo, KQs, KQo, AKs, AKo, AA} and maybe some double barrel bluff hands. I'm not sure how wide he's stealing so it's possible he could have some weaker kings in that range.

Problem is I really don't see him folding much of that range to a very bluffy looking shove. He probably folds KQ, he obviously folds any bluffs, and he folds weak kings, but I don't think we can assume he folds AK or KJ, and I doubt he folds AA. It's hard to imagine KQ, weak kings, and bluffs making up more than half of his range here, so I think you're going to get called more often than not when you shove this.

Looks to me like shoving is -EV here.
50nl - Semi Bluff shove turn? Is this ever a good idea? Quote

      
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