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50nl QQ played like a pussy 50nl QQ played like a pussy

08-16-2014 , 11:21 AM
PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $50.00 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
SB: $57.47 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 24)
BB: $50.75 (VPIP: 15.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 40)
UTG: $53.13 (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 33)
MP: $62.72 (VPIP: 25.40, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 65)
Hero (CO): $52.70

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.50, fold, fold, Hero calls $3.00

Flop: ($9.75, 2 players) 3 6 9
Hero checks, BTN bets $6.50, Hero calls $6.50

Turn: ($22.75, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, BTN bets $12.50, Hero calls $12.50

River: ($47.75, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, BTN bets $26.50 and is all-in, Hero calls $26.50

Hate these spots with JJ QQ.
4bet get it in preflop isnt always a bad thing

only 12 hands on villain, hadnt 3b once

obviously when i call that turn, i have to make a crying call on the river right?

can you fold the turn or river?

raising the flop isnt really a good thing to do is it, as it folds his bluffs, AK with 6 outs?
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-18-2014 , 11:16 PM
Hello Craigster,

I could be wrong, but the whole hand seems pretty standard to me. I don't see any value in raising at any point postflop. The only place I would even think about folding is the river, but we are getting almost 3 to 1 odds, so we have to be winning about 27% of the time to make calling profitable. Against an unknown I'd say they turn over JJ, a bluff, or some other inferior hand about that often. Of course this is tough to estimate and I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

The only decision that is more up in the air for me is whether to 4-bet pre. But since we have not seen Villain 3-bet yet, he is basically an unknown, and 3-bets IP are usually stronger hands than 3-betting from the blinds, I think a prefer flatting.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-18-2014 , 11:44 PM
co vs btn im just 4betting pre and calling off. I cant see much value in calling oop with QQ you just allow him to get away from his AK and thats where your value is tbh Ak and his bluffs. It's a spot where you rely on fold equity vs his 3b bluffs to make a 4b call profitable or atleast break even vs his AK QQ+ , not like were happy when he 5b jams but we have 40% vs that range and the rest we make up vs his bluffs and wider value ranges.

Maybe calling QQ oop is ok i dont know but im not a huge fan of it co vs btn , btn should have a pretty wide 3b bluff range, You can open up the arguemnt for calling and keeping his range as wide as possible and for me thats horses for courses, i just 4b QQ for value here and happy to call it off when he shoves. You should have a decent 4b bluff range aswell though vs btn here.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-18-2014 , 11:48 PM
you played the hand well

if you lost don't let those short term results make you lose sight of an overall profitable line vs a range of hands
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-18-2014 , 11:50 PM
looks well played to me. Can't fold, he could be doing this with TT or JJ just as often as KK and AA. Not to mention he could be betting flop and turn with club draw. Maybe A9. Can't fold river...again JJ and TT just as likely as AA and KK with the odds given it's right calling on the river IMO.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-18-2014 , 11:56 PM
if you call QQ here though preflop you cant have a 4b bluff range ? or atleast its wafer thin. Isnt having a pretty wide and active 4b range here a good thing oop co vs btn ? i been out the game to long.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 05:41 AM
Prefer your line over 4bet/call pre actually!

Nh
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 06:16 AM
At 50 without a read that btn is nitty or you have a nit image its an ez 4bet/call.

As played yeah you can't fold it, you've underrepped your hand, and all the draws he can barrel turn missed [clubs, random 5, 87/54,] so only one way for him to win the pot.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 07:23 AM
yeah 4bet call pre, Otherwise fine. Don't raise flop.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimBucktoo
co vs btn im just 4betting pre and calling off. I cant see much value in calling oop with QQ you just allow him to get away from his AK and thats where your value is tbh Ak and his bluffs. It's a spot where you rely on fold equity vs his 3b bluffs to make a 4b call profitable or atleast break even vs his AK QQ+ , not like were happy when he 5b jams but we have 40% vs that range and the rest we make up vs his bluffs and wider value ranges.

Maybe calling QQ oop is ok i dont know but im not a huge fan of it co vs btn , btn should have a pretty wide 3b bluff range, You can open up the arguemnt for calling and keeping his range as wide as possible and for me thats horses for courses, i just 4b QQ for value here and happy to call it off when he shoves. You should have a decent 4b bluff range aswell though vs btn here.
not that MUCH value vs AK, but if we call with QQ, then he doesnt get to see all 5 cards, which is 50% nearly by the river if all in preflop.
but i also agree to unknown i can either go for a fold or shove, preffer the shove as i prefer an aggro image.

but this is as broad as long as when people say you cant call, because he can get away from AK, but if i call i can keep in his bluffs if he has any.

so probably best to call down, and get coolered if he has overpair

Just hate these spots, coming from 25nl where they are all nits for 4b, stacking off ranges etc... they 3b wide enough at 25nl, but you ship QQ, they dont call with worse
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 01:20 PM
Well played.

You`re just getting results oriented.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midfield
Well played.

You`re just getting results oriented.
but do you prefer 4b call, or flat 3b oop vs unknown?
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimBucktoo
if you call QQ here though preflop you cant have a 4b bluff range ? or atleast its wafer thin. Isnt having a pretty wide and active 4b range here a good thing oop co vs btn ? i been out the game to long.
this isn't necessarily true at all. Vs a villain who 3bet/folds a lot we should have a super wide 4bet bluff range and a very narrow value range. this will exploit him until he adjusts (if he ever adjusts). Vs an unknown there's no point in talking about having a balanced range at all.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster1
but do you prefer 4b call, or flat 3b oop vs unknown?
standard play in an LP spot in a 6 max game is to just 4b/call. vs an unknown it is probably just better to play standard.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-19-2014 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
but do you prefer 4b call, or flat 3b oop vs unknown?
Flatting.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 12:59 AM
Perhaps it isn't so much that either calling or 4betting is the better play, but rather a matter of preference based on what you consider to be your strengths and weaknesses. In this case, flatting is good if you think you play well OOP on the flop in 3bet pots. If you are not comfortable in those spots then 4 betting makes sense.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money$Team
In this case, flatting is good if you think you play well OOP on the flop in 3bet pots.
I doubt anyone at micros does.

Just 4bet/call pre with QQ, if you want to have some strong hands in your flatting range then use AA or something instead.
Postflop is std once you flat.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 09:39 AM
4b/c and flatting are both okay. Fine as played. You could x/r flop too but w/e
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 09:47 AM
I would prefer 4b/ calling pre with these positions.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 11:06 AM
4b/call is standard as most people said. Doesn't mean it's always best of course, especially since people don't like to bluff too much pre vs unknowns.

I usually don't play 3b pot oop unless I have a good reason to so I'd just 4b/call but as played it's fine.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 11:24 AM
I think we need to 4 bet and call off here. dont want to play QQ oop vs a button 3 better who has a huge wide range.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrakenUO
I think we need to 4 bet and call off here. dont want to play QQ oop vs a button 3 better who has a huge wide range.
Wouldn't the wide 3bet range be a good argument for calling though?

I think both are fine, 4b calling and just flatting the 3bet.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 02:10 PM
What TWHELAN said: if we want to flat here we can better use KK or AA. Also if we don't 4b much we can't really 4b bluf a lot.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote
08-20-2014 , 06:32 PM
Easy 4b pre given positions, wanna be 4betting a good amount there and they can easily 5bet worse.

as played it's prob a fold since you rep some overpair and nobody expects that to fold therefore his range should be weighted towards value hands better than QQ unless he is bad and is trying to bluff too often.
50nl QQ played like a pussy Quote

      
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