50NL: QQ in 3bet pot, KKx flop - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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50NL: QQ in 3bet pot, KKx flop

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11-26-2011 , 10:41 AM

pukerz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,382

SB is reggish, 25/22, 50% AF, 12% 3bet over 67 hands
CO is fishy, 36/12/33%AF over 50

Pre ok or 4bet/call?
And the rest?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($176)
Hero ($55.63)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($54.20)
CO ($53.66)
BTN ($17.15)

Dealt to Hero Q

fold, fold, CO raises to $1, fold, SB raises to $4.25, Hero calls $3.75, CO calls $3.25

FLOP ($12.75) K

SB bets $7, Hero calls $7, CO folds

TURN ($26.75) K

SB bets $20

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11-26-2011 , 11:01 AM

Rob Filter

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,086

Fold turn pretty easily.

The flop is pretty marginal between call and fold, depending on whether he can value bet JJ and TT on the flop.

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11-26-2011 , 11:46 AM

Andy7117

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 230

I would prefer a 4bet pre, SB is most likely trying to iso the fish. Raising you'll most likely only get one caller or take it down pre.

As played calling the flop and folding turn is pretty standard.

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11-26-2011 , 12:40 PM

fsn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,286

^and let me guess: you fold if sb shoves over 4bet?

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11-26-2011 , 12:44 PM

__cco__

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 339

I would always 4bet vs 12% reg - he will 3bet prolly around 12%+ in this spot vs CO whom he will assume to call wide which makes his 3betting range more marginal value (don't think that matters tho).

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11-26-2011 , 12:47 PM

fsn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,286

so 4bet AQ or KQ. the fact that he 3bets a ton doesn't mean he 5b shoves TT here. When we flat we get to play IP with really strong hand against a wide range. Our hand is somewhat face up though

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11-26-2011 , 12:54 PM

__cco__

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 339

We can collect a lot of dead money and it's just so difficult to play so many boards profitably.

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11-26-2011 , 01:13 PM

fsn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,286

yes so collect that dead money when you have AQ or KQ. And it's not gonna be that hard to play postflop when it's gonna be 3way a lot of the times which makes it a lot harder for villain to bluff

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11-26-2011 , 01:14 PM

__cco__

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 339

Don't understand what you mean here, sorry. Do you mean you can stack KQ/AQ when the case Q flops?

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11-26-2011 , 01:16 PM

#10

fsn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,286

not sure what you mean here, maybe about the part i ninja edited? misread your post first...

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11-26-2011 , 01:18 PM

#11

__cco__

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 339

Oh, I see. You mean 4bet/folding AQ/KQ here right? That's pretty good, too, I agree, but why not just 4bet/call QQ here?

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11-26-2011 , 01:22 PM

#12

fsn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,286

4b/c is probably fine as well but flatting is def not bad. The fact that he 3bets a lot just doesn't mean we can get it in profitably. But as long as he jams AK it's gonna be +EV. I just think flatting might be more +EV. And yes 4b/f AQ, KQ

can't go too wrong as long as you're not folding or 4b/folding here

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11-26-2011 , 01:23 PM

#13

MikeGotNuts

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,991

I agree with 4betting pre, you get more than enough equity in the times villain folds his bluffs or makes a terrible flat call worse to make up for the times you stack off against a range of AK QQ+

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11-26-2011 , 01:26 PM

#14

__cco__

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 339

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsn

The thing with flatting is that you play QQ possibly vs two opponents, one opponent probably can estimate your range pretty good, the other opponent not so much, but QQ vs two opps in the sandwich position is just not a very good setup in general.

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11-26-2011 , 01:35 PM

#15

fsn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,286

true true not the hottest spot to be in but you're IP to 3bettor and CO has a wide range which you can value own when SB checks. If we didn't have position on 3bettor im snap 4betting pre. IP it's closer and i think im flatting more without dynamics/metagame.
Theoretically you probably should 4b/c QQ if you want to have a 4b bluff range here but it's not like anyone will be able to exploit that

aaand just noticed how small our sample size is which actually makes this more of a 4b/c

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11-26-2011 , 02:07 PM

#16

__cco__

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 339

Yeah, sorry, have to disagree with you on this one. I think I will have a 4b/fold range here, because fish isn't fishy enough to call 4bets with weird hands.
OTOH, I think it's just so gross to play QQ vs two players in the sandwich that I prefer the 4b/c.

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11-26-2011 , 02:10 PM

#17

fsn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,286

yup no worries, it might very well be better. And like i said i actually agree with you now since our sample size is so small, which i didn't notice at first. But anyway, as long as you're not 4b/folding it's good

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