Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($26.67)
BB ($50)
Hero ($52.37)
UTG+1 ($40.17)
UTG+2 ($48.75)
MP1 ($133)
MP2 ($52.83)
MP3 ($49.32)
CO ($50.63)
BTN ($87.77)

Dealt to Hero Q J

Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP3 raises to $4.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $3

FLOP ($9.75) T Q 2

Hero checks, MP3 bets $6, Hero calls $6

TURN ($21.75) T Q 2 6

Hero bets $16.25...

MP3 is running 7/3 with 0% 3 bet about 27hands.
Is he folding overpairs on turn or just hands like JJ or AK that I have allready beat?

Horrible line, imo. PF is a fold to an RR. Flop is thin. Turn I guess you can c/c or c/f depending on bet sizing.

If villain has KA, he should check back here a high % of the time; as it stands, he only has 4 outs going into the river.

I mean, why would you ever let a 7/3 who is RRing you in position put you in this spot?

Barry

Fold pre, and then fold pre again. Turn if he bets you can pretty much assume you're behind...and if he bets like $12 I dunno if you're getting odds to call. C/jam seems fun.

Surely not the MartinK?

Anyways, fold to the 3bet pre.

As played, why donk the turn? We could CRAI and see if he can fold an overpair, although it's dubious how much FE we have in a 3bet pot.

I dont understand why everybody is saying I should fold??
If a player is 7/3 he plays his cards most of the time face up.
Ok I am behind pre BUT also I know what his range is most of the time: JJ+ and AK.
I can outplay him on some flops if he is capable of knowing what I know about his range.
If he knows how to fold one pair hands on some bad looking flops that hits my range hard than its not -EV I guess.

fold pre. turn lead is all kinds of bad.

That's a lot of assumptions based off a 27 hand sample. Problem is that even if you were correct in all of them, pre is still marginal-bad at best, and if your assumptions are off (likely), then pre is bad-spew. Based on how you played postflop I'd bet that even if you knew for sure that your assumptions about this player were true, you'd still lose money making this play preflop. That's not an insult, it's just like really hard to turn a profit flatting that hand OOP vs this villain.

I hate folding 40% of royalflush
If I feel I have a big enough edge postflop on this kind of player, so I am going into war even oop.

Why would you EVER give someone who is raising 3% of hands action in a 3 bet pot? No one has a big enough skill advantage to overcome that much of a disadvantage OOP in a bloated pot, even if you did win this particular hand. One of the great parts of set mining against these players is that they DON'T fold! So you basically need to hit two pair or better to make money, and you aren't deep enough to make that profitable.

Although you're new here, I like some of your attempts at reasoning thus far.

Even if he is 7/3 preflop and he does play his hands face up, do you really want to play him off his RR to your UTG lead? Do you really want to play JJ+/AK OOP with QJss? Is he really capable of knowing about your range? What are his postflop tendencies? Capabilities? Why should he fold a one pair hand here given your line? What does your line look like?

Sadly, most of the time in poker, you have to follow a fairly strict set of rules in order to be profitable.

Barry

you don't know him aside from the fact he's probably going to be nitty-taggy...you're just delusional.

Also as Klankster said, the way you played postflop shows that you have no edge on a presumed nit. you're making a play for no reason. can you even explain why you did it besides the first level thinking of "omg i have a good hand"?

Jessy...do you know who you're talking to? This is the second coming of MARTINK!

The value in playing these hands in 3b pots is knowing when your TP is not good, and remembering that you're playing mostly for straight and flush possibilities provided villain gives you odds.

Opening pre is meh, not terrible just kinda marginal...but calling that 3bet to try to outplay him postflop is just lol. His range is faceup as being really strong and you are OOP, how much fold equity do you think you are going to have post in a 3bet pot? Not much, so basically you know you are way behind his range, have little FE and are OOP. Soooo what you are essentially doing is 2pair+mining in a 3bet pot.

I know guys what you mean, I know. Is standard to fold there b/c we are in a bad spot facing a 3 bet (OMGOMG!!) from a nit.
But is one of the importent rules in poker try to force people to fold their best hands, isn't it?

Ok all you guys are saying the same thing.
We teach you: you have to look for +EV situations and this perticular one is not one of them right?

So maybe he is stacking 100% of the time with his overpairs regarless of board texture and my range and line right?

So he is going always broke with his AA and KK for 100bb there right?


From my point of view what I think he is thinking and maybe folding.
So my line looks like: I raise UTG with 77+ and AJs+
I am calling his 3 bet oop knowing he is strong. I c/c a QT2 two heart flop.
I think now: He know that I know he has a strong range in this spot BUT I am going to lead out the turn and made a very strong move there. I am ready to play for stacks.
So I show him hey guy I know you have a very strong range but I am better and can beat all your one pair hands.

so let it go...

gl trying to make him fold AA or KK

No, the important rule of poker is to find +EV sitautions. That might involve bluffing(but pretty much never against a NIT who is getting aggressive), but the vast majority of the time it involves having the best hand. In fact, I was a solid 25NL reg for over 6 months without ever bluffing outside of a continuation bet. At some point in your poker career you will see spots where bluffing is good, but from what you have said I would suggest you remove it completely from your game for a few thousand hands and see how that works. Then, maybe, start looking for spots


The error in your thinking is that you are assuming the villan knows your strong and that your move is strong. If the villan were able to think about hands like that, then they wouldn't be a nit. In fact, he is COUNTING on players like you to make his style of play profitable (actually, more like break even and be a rakeback pro). What you are doing is the exact opposite of how you should play against a nit. Steal their blinds ruthlessly, call their opens when you have good implied odds AND a hand that can flop a monster (usually pocket pairs) preferably in position and with a lot of money left behind. When they show aggression, get out of the way. They aren't bluffing.

Horrible, horrible line. As played at least check/shove the turn for minimal fold equity. Your donk on the turn screams "let me see the river" to a decent player, which based on your desire to push him off a hand you believe he is, which I also think is a mistake.

Fold pre. As played fold flop. As played check raise or check fold the turn.

This is ******ed, i dont understand why so many people are giving serious replies.

LOL yeah its ******ed^^

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($26.67)
BB ($50)
Hero ($52.37)
UTG+1 ($40.17)
UTG+2 ($48.75)
MP1 ($133)
MP2 ($52.83)
MP3 ($49.32)
CO ($50.63)
BTN ($87.77)

Dealt to Hero Q J

Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP3 raises to $4.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $3

FLOP ($9.75) T Q 2

Hero checks, MP3 bets $6, Hero calls $6

TURN ($21.75) T Q 2 6

Hero bets $16.25, MP3 folds

I dont think his line necessarily looks like 'I want to see a river'.

The thing that might be bad about the turn is we are giving up a on of EV if he shoves.

Whats the plan on the river Martin?

Shove if I hit 2pair,trips,flush and give up and save the rest of my remaining stack I guess if I am not improve...

Btw. Do you guys remember high-stakes poker how durrr 3-bet-5bet called with 86o the biggest nit on table Lederer???

Yes, because online poker is analogous to 500bb deep televised cash games right?

you absoultly right. You cant compare 100BB nitty abc online-games with high complicated 4th level thinking deep-highstack-poker.

What I try to say is sometimes you have to show heart and get into war with some nits out there, knowing you are behind,knowing its a marginal spot, knowing its maybe -EV to call pre BUT also knowing they play their hands most of the time face-up.

If I turn my hand into (semi)-bluff like this and lead out the turn they have to know one pair hands are in trouble...

Btw. with TT and QQ I will take also the same line...