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NL - QJs BvB Line check. NL - QJs BvB Line check.

12-20-2013 , 11:05 PM
It's actually a Bovada HH as I use a converter and run it through PT4 and my PT4 is defaulted to Stars. I've been playing live and I recently came back online after finding Bovada so I'm trying to re-acclimate to the online realm. As far as the hand is concerned, I'm not concerned with any $ results (either way), rather, I want to ensure I'm making good online +EV decisions.

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #21832371

Hero (SB): $51.70 (103.4 bb)
BB: $89.81 (179.6 bb)
UTG+2: $21.65 (43.3 bb)
MP1: $11.30 (22.6 bb)
MP2: $49.50 (99 bb)
MP3: $34.30 (68.6 bb)
CO: $49 (98 bb)
BTN: $67.60 (135.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q J
6 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3) K Q T (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($6) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($6) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3, Hero calls $3.

V is unknown and is running 42/0 over 12 hands. Admittedly, I don't know how he chipped-up in those 12 hands.

Hero is 18/13 over 98, not that it's pertinent due to such small sample size with V and just got donk bluffed OTT 3 way with JJ a few hands ago but I'm not sure if that's recognized by V.

The reason I checked the flop was due to being OOP and having a P+OESD and I wasn't looking to build a pot OOP on that flop as my hand had quite a bit of equity.

When I check the flop and he bets, I range him in the neighborhood of Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx, Tx, 2p, FD, small pair, etc. Essentially, I think he's fairly wide here and is likely to bet a big part of his range in this spot given my PF and Flop action. So, I was willing to x/c one street and re-evaluate OTT. When the turn bricked, I was now in SDV mode and was trying to keep the pot as small as I could with being OOP.

When V checks behind OTT, I've think we can safely rule out the 2p hands as well as any Jx hands as you'd think he'd likely semi-bluff those hands given how passively I've played post flop. So, we're left with weak K's, Qx, Tx, FD and SP.

As far as the river is concerned, I thought about going for thin value but then I changed my mind as I wasn't confident enough that he'd fold a K and call with worse.

Are we good enough here often to make this a +EV call in the long run against relatively unknowns...? How about looking for thin value in these spots, too?
NL - QJs BvB Line check. Quote
12-21-2013 , 03:12 AM
I thought there weren't any HUDs on Bovada? I don't think you're breaking down his range enough, when you say... "Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx, Tx, 2p, FD, small pair, etc.". While it's fine to kinda put out a general range, it's important to think of some of the more pertinent parts of that range. For example, it's imperative to make a judgement (whether a weighted avg or whatever) whether the Villain 3-bets KQ and AJ preflop. I think they're very easy 3-bets from the BB, but I don't know if that's how most unkowns play on this site. But it will drastically change the equity postflop and should have been noted. Along the same lines, you should at minimum guesstimate what you think is the BOTTOM of his 3-bet "value" range. In other words, if you think he 3-bets KQ, AJ preflop, how about AT and KJ?

Fwiw, I think you played the hand well, I'm just not sure that you're thought process was as in-depth and on point as it needs to be.
NL - QJs BvB Line check. Quote
12-21-2013 , 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyPromises
I thought there weren't any HUDs on Bovada? I don't think you're breaking down his range enough, when you say... "Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx, Tx, 2p, FD, small pair, etc.". While it's fine to kinda put out a general range, it's important to think of some of the more pertinent parts of that range. For example, it's imperative to make a judgement (whether a weighted avg or whatever) whether the Villain 3-bets KQ and AJ preflop. I think they're very easy 3-bets from the BB, but I don't know if that's how most unkowns play on this site. But it will drastically change the equity postflop and should have been noted. Along the same lines, you should at minimum guesstimate what you think is the BOTTOM of his 3-bet "value" range. In other words, if you think he 3-bets KQ, AJ preflop, how about AT and KJ?

Fwiw, I think you played the hand well, I'm just not sure that you're thought process was as in-depth and on point as it needs to be.
He got 12 hands on him, it will be impossible to make up a much better range than op did imo.

I think hand is played fine, but still a lot that beat us in his range, 3:1 is decent prize for our hand though so I would call.
NL - QJs BvB Line check. Quote
12-21-2013 , 07:55 AM
I think an easy call.
NL - QJs BvB Line check. Quote
12-21-2013 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyPromises
I thought there weren't any HUDs on Bovada? I don't think you're breaking down his range enough, when you say... "Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx, Tx, 2p, FD, small pair, etc.". While it's fine to kinda put out a general range, it's important to think of some of the more pertinent parts of that range. For example, it's imperative to make a judgement (whether a weighted avg or whatever) whether the Villain 3-bets KQ and AJ preflop. I think they're very easy 3-bets from the BB, but I don't know if that's how most unkowns play on this site. But it will drastically change the equity postflop and should have been noted. Along the same lines, you should at minimum guesstimate what you think is the BOTTOM of his 3-bet "value" range. In other words, if you think he 3-bets KQ, AJ preflop, how about AT and KJ?

Fwiw, I think you played the hand well, I'm just not sure that you're thought process was as in-depth and on point as it needs to be.
I agree, however, I had very few hands on him so I wasn't sure. If I'm V, I'm 3betting air with ATo+, A8s+, KTo+, KTs+ and sometimes adding in A9o, A8o, K9o and K8o, and even quite a bit more if SB is prone to folding to re-steal. While I didn't say it, it was a quick thought but I didn't give much conscious credit to it since he was a complete unknown, but maybe the subconscious took over on the river because it was a snap call.

Moving forward your point is well taken and I'll give it more than a quick thought against relatively unknowns.

Bovada has Holdem Indicator but it's not as in-depth as PT. So, I convert and import to PT4 for the whole ball of wax and the conversion shows all stats for Vs -if applicable. It much somehow tag their hidden ID and store them to a database since Bovada is anonymous. I'll have to look more in-depth at HI to see if there is a way to show cumulative stats, rather than session stats since PT shows some cumulative stats when I upload in to replayer but I only have session stats for those Vs in HI.

I guess that's what I was trying to get a feel for from you guys that have been playing online quite a bit and never really went the live route. Live this is probably a fold but given how online plays I was curious if this is a long term +EV call without much history do determine a decent range. I've found in my limited time back online that V can show up with bluffs, TPWK, TPGK, 2nd and 3rd pair, busted draws, etc. in these spots. But, that's over a much smaller sample than most of you guys have. Thanks.

Last edited by iFLY; 12-21-2013 at 11:45 AM. Reason: added last paragraph
NL - QJs BvB Line check. Quote

      
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