50nl line check with combo - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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50nl line check with combo

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03-14-2010 , 10:21 PM

ianzxcvbnm

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 464

Is this the best way to play this, anyone shove the turn?

Villain is a decent reg who i think would be 3 betting KQ pre

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (2 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($50)
BB ($63.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7

, 6

Hero bets $1.5, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3) 5

, K

, Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises $6.20, Hero calls $4.20

Turn: ($15.40) 8

(2 players)
BB bets $11.10, Hero calls $11.10

River: ($37.60) J

(2 players)
BB bets $32, Hero folds

Total pot: $37.60

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03-15-2010 , 01:05 AM

poloboy4

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,718

you could shove the turn but I don't like it. Given the way the guy played the flop I don't think you're getting any folds on the turn, so you'll just be getting your money in and trying to hit. Obviously this isn't optimal. If you were going to shove, you should probably have done it on the flop (and unless the guy had been c/r bluffing that's not really good 100BB deep).

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03-15-2010 , 04:07 AM

jackdaniel

adept

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,037

hes never bet/folding this turn and we are behind

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03-15-2010 , 05:33 AM

vins84

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 180

I disagree with people saying villain is never going to bet/fold.
Some hands (draws (flush and straight), some Kx) could take this line.

I'd play it the same way in most of the cases, but check/shoving the turn may be the best line sometimes.

Last edited by vins84; 03-15-2010 at 05:39 AM.

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03-15-2010 , 05:45 AM

spit22

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 884

would he c/r this flop with TP for value ? cause if he doesn't have KQ or AK , or KK/QQ, that leaves him with worse kings like KT,K9. Would he call from BB with hands like Q5/K5 ? if yes your line is fine, if no shove turn

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03-15-2010 , 06:10 AM

MossBoss

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,564

I'd probably shove flop, I think you represent most strength and have most equity there. In short, you get maximum fold equity and when called you still have a load of equity. His c/r range prob also has a load of draws that aren't calling your shove but by flatting flop you give an opportunity to barrel you off

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03-15-2010 , 11:23 AM

spit22

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 884

i think we have more Fold equity against a TP kind of hand on the turn. ofc against a thinking opponent that is.

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03-15-2010 , 12:00 PM

BackBlood

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 795

Quote:

Originally Posted by vins84

Kx is never bet/folding but draws that beat us will.

More draws he has the better it is to shove the turn......

Shoving flop is lol.....

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03-15-2010 , 01:04 PM

Rodolphe

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,332

I like your line, I don't think he's gonna bet/fold that turn v often and ur crushed by all his range on the turn.
And yeah, he's never bet/folding KX. Almost no one would do this on such a drawy board.

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03-15-2010 , 01:24 PM

#10

MossBoss

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,564

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

I like your line, I don't think he's gonna bet/fold that turn v often and ur crushed by all his range on the turn.
And yeah, he's never bet/folding KX. Almost no one would do this on such a drawy board.

doesn't this mean you don't like his line?

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03-15-2010 , 01:50 PM

#11

limberger23

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 226

would play the same way as the op.

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03-15-2010 , 02:57 PM

#12

Rodolphe

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,332

It means I don't like raising the turn, that's all

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03-15-2010 , 03:24 PM

#13

suckoutgenius

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,133

shoving the flop is horrible. i shove the turn are large % of the time. calling is perfectly reasonable tho.

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03-15-2010 , 07:02 PM

#14

WhateverSon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4,304

Our equity doesn't really change on the turn... I think shoving the turn is worse than shoving the flop... if we call flop we call turn. with all the strong hands we can make its pretty standard, I think I would of played it the same way... people overplay draws and I think when you call his check-raise on flop there a so many few hands you could have, flush draw being in the top of your cr calling range...

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03-15-2010 , 07:35 PM

#15

suckoutgenius

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,133

shoving the turn is infinitely better than just shoving over his flop c/r. if i was getting it in on the flop, i would be 3b / calling and pretty sad when he shoves.

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03-15-2010 , 07:50 PM

#16

Rodolphe

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,332

Quote:

Originally Posted by suckoutgenius

shoving the turn is infinitely better than just shoving over his flop c/r.

explain

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03-15-2010 , 08:29 PM

#17

WhateverSon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4,304

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

explain

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03-15-2010 , 09:15 PM

#18

spit22

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 884

for all those who say shoving turn is not good.. let me put it this way ... If you get to the turn like that and you are never folding a K you are losing big bucks cause there is a lot of people who want to see a safe turn and then ship the moniez with sets, two pairs, TP w/ better kicker etc. Also our hand is kind of disguised cause it wouldn't make sense to not get it in on the flop if we had a draw. Hence if he doesn't have a read on us that we are too aggressive etc and he folds a K or a draw on the turn then good fold. Again only assuming villain is a thinking player.. otherwise he's not folding anything

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03-15-2010 , 11:46 PM

#19

badboyboogie0

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,420

shove turn.
how can you play a combo draw passively?
villain is a decent reg, i assume there are fd, JT, gutshots, pure bluffs (2 broadways and rag board), and weakish kings in his range that he can fold to a shove (since he's 3betting big kings).

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03-15-2010 , 11:53 PM

#20

skibbel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,867

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

explain

imho a turnshove can fold out better draws while a flopshove can't?

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03-16-2010 , 05:29 AM

#21

Rodolphe

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,332

Quote:

Originally Posted by skibbel

imho a turnshove can fold out better draws while a flopshove can't?

Doesnt make sense to me. He is more commited on the turn.

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03-16-2010 , 05:31 AM

#22

Rodolphe

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,332

And you guys are crazy about thinking he can fold KX or, worse, thinking it might be a good play to do so. Look the pot odds, look all the draws

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03-16-2010 , 08:03 AM

#23

spit22

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 884

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

And you guys are crazy about thinking he can fold KX or, worse, thinking it might be a good play to do so. Look the pot odds, look all the draws

if we shove turn he is getting approximately 2 to 1 to call here. if he thinks our range is 2pair + he doesn't get the right odds to call with Kx or worse since he is a big dog against that , always assuming he won't think we would play our draws like that.

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03-16-2010 , 09:17 AM

#24

Fam Sahra

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 80

3b call flop

dont be a nit

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03-16-2010 , 10:02 AM

#25

ceavou22

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,067

Quote:

Originally Posted by spit22

That is a huge and definitely bad assumption to make, look how draw heavy the board is. No villain is ever only putting us on "2pair +" and ever folding Kx.

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