50NL - JJ preflop - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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50NL - JJ preflop

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01-24-2008 , 01:30 AM

wikemang

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,543

Readless.

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $17.00
UTG+1: $64.65
MP: $27.60
CO: $20.00
BTN: $4.30
SB: $44.20
Hero (BB): $57.35

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with J

2 folds, MP raises to $1.50, 2 folds, SB calls $1.25, Hero ???

Thoughts? I'll post what I did later, and maybe we can generate some good discussion.

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01-24-2008 , 01:49 AM

Effen

CRAB

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 24,004

Call and c/r lots of flops.

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01-24-2008 , 01:53 AM

BIGFISH72

adept

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 799

I'd 3bet to $4.5 for starters especially 7 handed.

No reads you say, but info on how the table has been playing would be useful

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01-24-2008 , 02:17 AM

wikemang

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGFISH72

I'd 3bet to $4.5 for starters especially 7 handed.

No reads you say, but info on how the table has been playing would be useful

Why $4.5? If he 4bets what are you doing? As for reads on how the table had been playing, I'd say it was a table with a standard mix of bad TAGs, a semi-loose player or two, and some nits. Note stacks sizes.

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01-24-2008 , 02:29 AM

Ligarius

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 474

call and wait a good flop, with position i'd 3bet to 6$

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01-24-2008 , 02:29 AM

BIGFISH72

adept

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 799

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikemang

I didnt realise villain had just over half a full stack and a 3bet would therefore be incorrect and this makes the call and the CR on the flop favourable on a safe board. Also with no reads on villain, the 3bet wouldn't be so clever.

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01-24-2008 , 04:57 AM

CalledDownLight

Toonces the Posting Bot

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 88,413

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effen

Call and c/r lots of flops.

not a good line.

3betting to $4.5 like whoever suggested is a good way to play this.

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01-24-2008 , 05:37 AM

wikemang

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,543

If you 3bet you should be calling a shove, correct?

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01-24-2008 , 09:43 AM

Johnes Benjamin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,971

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikemang

If you 3bet you should be calling a shove, correct?

what? no, that's terrible.

3betting itself is probably the best though. then cbet, but be willing to not take it too far. calling isn't the worst thing but then a lead or c/c i think are both better than c/r

edit: LOL. ok, just saw stack size. I'm still not sure I like a call vs a total unknown but I would probably end up calling a lot of the time

Last edited by Johnes Benjamin; 01-24-2008 at 09:51 AM.

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01-24-2008 , 10:55 AM

#10

Effen

CRAB

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 24,004

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalledDownLight

not a good line.

3betting to $4.5 like whoever suggested is a good way to play this.

Perhaps I should have qualified the statement, it was terse.

I think this spot is a good one to strike a good balance to the times one will call out of the blinds with xx and c/r the flop with air/weak hands. Not only do you have a hand with value to begin with, but even if you end up committing, you'll generally be risking only half a stack.

Of course this all changes if the sb goes lolnuts.

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01-24-2008 , 12:04 PM

#11

Specialwon

adept

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,017

I probably 3 bet but I think 4.50 is a little low, 6 seems better. SB is near full stack and we don't want him set mining on the cheap.

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01-24-2008 , 12:12 PM

#12

zyrrth

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,991

squeeze

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01-24-2008 , 02:51 PM

#13

keepitreal

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,483

3betting oop seems to backfire for me a lot when my cbet gets called/raised and im oop with just a pair of jacks but i think u still gotta do it (against a 3x open...im more tempted to call a 4x open cuz the pot will get a little out of control with a 3bet and a cbet).

as an aside...say we 3bet and get a call (or two)...what flops do u guys cbet and what do u guys check?

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01-24-2008 , 03:42 PM

#14

666shooter

centurion

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 160

I'd raise to $4.50 or $6.00. Hopefully that gets rid of the SB and if MP calls, the pot will be $10.25 on the flop with an SPR of 2.3. I'd be willing to get the rest of my money in with a couple of pot-sized bets if the flop is decent.

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01-24-2008 , 03:51 PM

#15

Shephard

adept

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 815

i would sometimes just call and sometimes 3-bet, but i think 4.50 is way to low, no one is ever folding to such a small raise make it at least 6$, if MP shoves fold, but people rarely shove here

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01-24-2008 , 04:50 PM

#16

Maitre_Jedi

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 53

I agree that if we 3 bet we have to put around $6. But now, we are creating a big pot and if we get call we are probably behind the range of the caller (with no read is hard to say though). IMO with this line we have chance to get the pot right now but if we are call the future decision are more difficult.

If the flop contain A or K we don't like it after the call or after the 3bet.
If the flop containe no A K Q we like it but even more if we just call since we keep more weak hands. If we 3bet there a lot more chance that we are facing QQ KK AA. And since we keep the pot small we can slow down to any resistance.

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01-24-2008 , 04:59 PM

#17

wikemang

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,543

I actually 3bet to 8, for a couple of reasons. 1) I'm OOP, and 2) I'm OOP. I think if you're 3betting here, you should be willing to call an allin. A huge 3bet here makes him feel more committed to the pot, I think, and thus opens up his shoving range a little. Plus, he's a shortstack, and shortstacks love to get allin preflop with AJ+, TT+, and maybe some other random hands like KQ. This could be totally wrong, but hey, just a thought

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01-24-2008 , 05:13 PM

#18

Maitre_Jedi

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 53

It's hard to play JJ with the intention to go all-in. To have a E+ after the flop you gonna need a really small STR against an normal TAG player. So to acheive that you have to raise big preflop and since you're TAG player will call only with AA KK QQ AK you still don't succeed to make a E+ play.

It's the problem with middle pair, and JJ can be wiew as a middle pair against a TAG player.

Since you cannot acheive a good STR you better to let the pot small. If you hit a set you can count on implied odds. If A K Q show of you fold. And with a safe low flop you try to win a small pot.

Any tough?

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01-24-2008 , 05:16 PM

#19

Maitre_Jedi

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maitre_Jedi

you gonna need a really small STR

Since you cannot acheive a good STR

I meant SPR

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01-24-2008 , 05:22 PM

#20

zyrrth

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,991

it's a standard squeeze and depending on how smart mp1 is it's either an easy fold or a (thin) call if he pushes all in or reraises. i'd expect to take it down pf a lot.

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01-24-2008 , 07:21 PM

#21

BIGFISH72

adept

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 799

The 3bet to $4.5 is maybe small but how often does it get the job done by making villain fold on the flop? $6 or even $8 is alot to put in and once you are called and shoved you are beat so often. He has already demonstrated he is cautious.

Why risk $8 to win his $1.50 ??? If he calls the $8, what are we beating by shoving?

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01-24-2008 , 07:55 PM

#22

wikemang

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,543

Well if he knows what a squeeze play, my 3bet reeks of it...

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01-24-2008 , 08:00 PM

#23

zyrrth

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,991

oh i didn't see mp was short, in that case i'm more likely to call a shove obv.

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01-24-2008 , 10:52 PM

#24

BIGFISH72

adept

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 799

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGFISH72

Can anyone answer this?

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01-24-2008 , 11:59 PM

#25

toymach776

adept

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,025

This is a toufh spot readless. Id flat it, but im on the passive side. Id only tend to 3bet this with stats or a read.

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