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50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? 50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do?

01-15-2008 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts
miles of posts, well in that case nevermind. If you post something 10 times it must be true.
Now that's obv not what I said...

But yeah, let's bet/fold for information with our huge draw, at least that will tell us if he has an OP+. I don't like any of your points really. I don't think betting the flop+turn will make him lay down TP+. If we bet/folding we'll fold a huge draw, and for what? To not get outdrawn vs a 2-6 outer in a tiny pot? To fold hands we're completely crushing and get called only by better? Besides he might easily hit a 2nd best hand etc.

Above that I like check/calling for all the reasons I've already stated and won't repeat.


Quote:
The biggest reason I hate check/calling tho is that if it goes check/check its a disaster. I personally don't cbet that flop 100% of the time.
Checking because he won't c-bet 100% is not a disaster, esp not when we're holding a fd. Btw, I think he'll c-bet often in a steal situation HU.

I know I might come off as a dick, but I just really dislike your line.

Last edited by Nick Royale; 01-15-2008 at 10:27 PM.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 10:55 PM
betting this flop OOP with a pair of 8's is like betting in position when you have 99. You usually have the best hand, and bet to protect your hand. Same deal. Even though in both cases your not really called by anything worse, your just betting to protect your hand (or in this case to protect your equity).

I think betting on the turn ace will make him fold top pair and overpairs. Besides, even if he calls we had enough equity on the turn vs. the majority of his calling range to check/call a bet anyways.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:05 PM
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...page=4&fpart=1

link to Bobbo talking about combo draws where everyone pretty much agrees (from what I remember) that betting the flop is the best line.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts
betting this flop OOP with a pair of 8's is like betting in position when you have 99. You usually have the best hand, and bet to protect your hand. Same deal. Even though in both cases your not really called by anything worse, your just betting to protect your hand (or in this case to protect your equity).

I think betting on the turn ace will make him fold top pair and overpairs. Besides, even if he calls we had enough equity on the turn vs. the majority of his calling range to check/call a bet anyways.
I don't think it's the same deal. For one, being IP with the initiative isn't like being OOP without. 99 will get calls from 2nd pair/draws too. And because we're having the FD our hand is less vulnerable.

And I don't think he'll fold the turn even if it's an A very often. He can't put us on an A and he will likely peel one more street imo. Besides, a more important point, the turn will be an A very rarely, so we can't really bet the flop hoping for an A on the turn.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:12 PM
we could bet the flop figuring we'll often win it on later streets even if he calls since he never goes to showdown anyways. So really his call on the flop is just dead money in our eyes.

check raise all in on a blank and bet on a turned Q K or Ace.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...page=4&fpart=1

link to Bobbo talking about combo draws where everyone pretty much agrees (from what I remember) that betting the flop is the best line.
That hand from the quiz is not the same thing. I would be fast playing my "pure" draws (oesd and fd, gs and fd, over and fd). However, with a pair we have showdown value against his wide range that is c-betting this flop.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...page=4&fpart=1

link to Bobbo talking about combo draws where everyone pretty much agrees (from what I remember) that betting the flop is the best line.
Big diff being that in Bobbo's hand we're having the initiative already. So if we check we can't really expect villain to bet as often. Another HUGE diff is that we're not having any SD value with A4ss. We know villain has us beat and we don't need to check to keep in the hands drawing slim vs our hand.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:14 PM
alright Pro's convinced me.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts
we could bet the flop figuring we'll often win it on later streets even if he calls since he never goes to showdown anyways. So really his call on the flop is just dead money in our eyes.

check raise all in on a blank and bet on a turned Q K or Ace.
Dead money? It's a pretty strong range we need to fold out, I wouldn't consider it dead money. Check/raising the turn also seems like suicide and a recipe to get called by OP+.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-15-2008 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts
alright Pro's convinced me.
Sweet.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-16-2008 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJo336
Opponent is 18/10 yet very nitty on showdowns, Hes had one in almost 200 hands and it was top set, his gone to sd is below 10%. This is a small sample, but something to note as he folds alot of small bets. When he calls my flop i worry he has something, and i have no clue how to proceed from here. What are some standard lines?


btw for kaz: i have been playing a std tag game, little nitty but nothing drastic.


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

PJo336 (BB): $77.25
AcsCrshMchin (UTG): $142.60
MDoranD (CO): $187.45
EVIL DOER (BTN): $64.55
cbsplash (SB): $29.50

Pre Flop: PJo336 is BB with 8 9
2 folds, EVIL DOER raises to $1.50, 1 fold, PJo336 calls $1.00

Flop: ($3.25) 3 T 8 (2 players)
PJo336 checks, EVIL DOER bets 2.50, PJo336 raises $6.50 to $9, EVIL DOER calls

turn: (21.25) A
PJo336
pf is std for me btw, im spewy like that



Fixed it holler!
havent read any responses yet. from my intial reaction is that you should bet this turn. its a good scare card for villan. i would guess most players at this level cannot hand read very well (at least to a basic extent) and many will freeze when they see the overcard. you'd be surprised how often they would fold KK/QQ/JJ or whatever to a turn bet here. so, i like semibluffing this turn despite the fact that the ace should rarely be in our range (aside from Ax). leading this turn looks pretty strong- we are saying 'yeah, we see that ace and we aren't scared of it so **** you'.

if he's good and can hand read well (he should realize that ace shouldnt really change a whole lot) then i might consider doing something else. i also forgot to mention that i dislike pf. fold vs. this nit or 3-bet is also an option.

leading the turn also helps us play the river relatively easy. generally shove if we improve (any 9/8/club) and sometimes (Tx) depending on stacks and c/f to most bets if we don't improve.

i think betting the turn is superior to c/c-ing. we rarely get paid if we hit our on the river and it puts us in an awkward spot in general.
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote
01-16-2008 , 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJo336

turn: (21.25) A
PJo336
BTW, pretty sure that's a tell if you're playing live and do that after the turn.


Does Evildoer C-bet a lot? Is he looser on the flop, but tightens up on the turn and beyond? Does he fold on the river a lot? Or does he just not go to war past the flop often?
50NL: If you were u me and i was u, what would i tell u to do? Quote

      
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