Oh I forgot, dump this crap PF.

yea man you butchered this hand...theres sooo many turn cards that will kill your action or put you behind in the hand. I probably c/r this flop all day, sometimes donk if villian is aggro enough to raise.

I'm sorry but i really don't agree...The only difficult thing to play this hand postflop (hit/miss type so very easy to play...) it' that oop it's difficult to extract if you hit...And that was the core of the thread...This said 3 to 1 are really good odds (not counting that the Tpa and I are quite deep...) so this to me is kinda of an automatic call pf...

raise the flop, raise the turn, shove the river. I probably fold preflop too we're OOP with a hand that has like no value

Ease of play is largely irrelevant. 23o is easy to play but that doesn't mean calling raises with it is profitable. You aren't deep and without reads you should usually fold it. With reads that villains will stack off with ATC or will always fold to semi-bluffs then its probably ok.

As far as post flop is concerned you should play the way that gets the most money in obviously - checking and calling doesn't do that. I don't mind slowplaying and it can be a useful tool - with reads. Without them the default play should be to bet and raise and raise some more.

If you want to be tricky then that's fine but its not being tricky to play the hand the way every donkey plays it. Leading the flop is tricky because it represents weakness. How do donks play big hands? ZOMG!!!! SLOWPLAY. c/c Flop, c/r Turn. So, don't do that.

The alternative is to c/r the Flop if you think it might get some money trapped. That line is fine and perhaps better because if you lead and get raised then the third player will probably fold. A c/r shows more strength than a lead but less than a Turn c/r and the villain will probably not fold his overpair if he has one.

River is a call obviously. If you are beat then its unlucky and you will know to get more money in when ahead next time

You have a leak.

With 3 to 1 immediate odds, do you really think you're gonna win the pot one in three times at least to make up for the times you need to forfeit? Do you really think you're going to get paid like EVERY time you hit a monster?

SCs are only +EV to play when you have both pot and steal equity. Only when these two are added together, you can play them profitably. Think about your situation: How likely are you to win the pot by stealing? What's your relative/absolute position?

+1

You will never be profitable in spots like this unless u start learning how to extract value when u hit.

+1 Nice post Infinity.
Alot of people have this leak. Thier immediate odds look correct but in reality they are much,much higher.

OP, your hand is not as strong as you think. It is very vulnerable so you must lead flop or C/R to protect your hand. You posted wanting help but you disagreed with almost every poster

Why would you be sorry for this?


I think infinity is right though. It's ok to call this some of the time. It's also ok to call this against very straightforward players. But in general, in a good balanced strategy, I'm convinced this is not a 100% call. I like to call about half the time when the pot is multiway and I have position. I'll mostly fold when it's headsup or I'm oop. I do so, because half the time is easy to randomize; If I get 54s I call, if it's 45s I fold. I think less than half the time would probably be better since you should like your range to be a bit more shifted towards 'real' hands. Suited connectors are just there so your postflop play isn't to predictable. I'd play all of them all the time if my opponents are very predictable and are offering me big implied odds though. But I'd need a strong read and feel real confident I have the proper implied odds.

And for sure this is not the only one...Thanks for spotting it but...

(not tryin' to be insolent...) 3 to 1 is one time in four that is a quite a bit better i think...

For sure this time i didn't succeed...Anyhow the core of the thread was just to try to understand why and how to extraxt next time...

This i don't completely agree...To me (and not only to me lookin' around in the forum...) 98s is a SCs and is a raising hand from EVERY position for a solid tight range on 6max NL, and utg you don't have neither those...But it's only one hand and what you say it's practically correct...This said , i don't cold call every 54s in the BB...Far from that...But i think that given the pot odds AND both the Tpa (on which i'm in relative position answering to the position question...) and me quite deep AND the almost dead money of the donk AND the miss/hit type hand, THIS is an automatic call...But it's a situaton...


Anyhow thanks...Feel free to add anything you still have to say...

Well "almost" is not "every"...But i think that this is the real utility of posting hands don't you?...I post a hand to discuss about it...Which line i like, which i dislike and above all why because only with confrontation improving is possible...Not to read a 2 word answer like "raise somewhere"...

Btw great avatar...

Only an idiom of my mother tongue...


Np, i agree with almost everything and i think you gave me an original way to randomize...I think that the underlined represents the situation...The only thing a bit different is that the io ar not SO big because me and the Tpa are "only" fullstacks but i think that the money of the donk is a variable that should be considered...

98s is a raising hand because you DO have steal equity and pot equity. I don't see what you're disagreeing with here.

Since i've posted a cold call of 54s on the BB doesn't mean i cold call every 54s on the BB...

Fullstack isn't quite deep?...I had some reads i think...

I think this is really the key and you're right...They(He...) see me as a really aggro player , i mean TAF 7, and switching to passive when i have a monster it's a really predictable way to play for obsvervative villains...Still i really don't agree with the flop lead line for reasons already examined...I'm a bit at fault between the flop c/r and the turn leading line, propending for the last one...Anyone has an advice with motivations?...Do you think that Tpa would have called anyway?...Both lines make me committed to the river?...


This i obviously disagree...Only because it's unlucky i sholud give him 3/4 of a stack?...I have a read ,i'm almost 100% sure that he shouldn't pot that river without clubs, i'm marginal and this is a clear fold...I have my 3/4 stack and i know that i misplayed the hand...