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50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD 50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD

05-25-2008 , 10:06 PM
Villain was 22/11 over 9 hands.
I called the flop to represent a strong hand instead of a OESD and was going to shove on any bet on the turn. I did not see much fold equity in making a big bet on the turn. I decided to make it look like a value bet on a strong hand.
1. Should I have raised the flop?
2. What is a good bet size for the turn?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($51.50)
MP3 ($50)
Hero ($60.30)
Button ($61.45)
SB ($19.75)
BB ($50)
UTG ($12.65)
UTG+1 ($7.65)
MP1 ($30.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, Q.
5 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($4) 2, T, 9 (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($8) 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5.5, SB calls $5.50.

River: ($19) 8 (2 players)
SB bets $10.5 (All-In), Hero calls $10.50.

Final Pot: $40

Last edited by Scared Donkey; 05-25-2008 at 10:23 PM.
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 12:37 AM
Well played, nh. That's what he gets for playing JT in the SB.

I wouldn't raise the flop. You are representing a over pair and he thought he sucked out on you on the river.
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 01:00 AM
When I see someone flat call there I would assume they were on a draw/overcards, not an overpair - especially since you raised from CO I'm not giving you credit for a big pair. I think you raise the flop here to ~$7 and then move in on him on the turn - make him make a decision for all of his chips.

Just my 2 cents though - am I wrong to put you on a draw when you flat there?
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 01:05 AM
Raise the flop. Chances are you have an 11 out hand. Once the turn comes I check because it's unlikely that villain is going to fold. If the turn is a J-A I think betting is fine but you repped nothing on the flop so your turn bet reps the same thing.
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared Donkey
I called the flop to represent a strong hand instead of a OESD and was going to shove on any bet on the turn. I did not see much fold equity in making a big bet on the turn. I decided to make it look like a value bet on a strong hand.
1. Should I have raised the flop?
2. What is a good bet size for the turn?
I am not sure I understand you at all.
Did you say that you believe he won´t fold the turn, yet you plan to bet big to mimic a strong hand?

If so, that´s wrong if I am not very much mistaken.
See you can value bet made hands and you can value bet combo draws with two cards to come. You can not value bet OESD with one card to come. This is a semi-bluff that requires a villain who may fold. You said you belive there´s little fold equity.

But this is so obvious that I prolly just misanderstand what you wrote, or I´m just too tired to think about about poker now, I´m off for a coffee, gl, later
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Well played, nh. That's what he gets for playing JT in the SB.

I wouldn't raise the flop. You are representing a over pair and he thought he sucked out on you on the river.
Ah, so that's what the $2 donkbet meant. :>
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 11:57 AM
I meant to say that on the flop I wanted to represent an overpair. When villain checked the turn, I made the bet knowing that hands like a10 or k10 might not fold here, but by betting was getting a little fold equity and setting up a nice bluff or decent value bet if I made my OESD on the river. I thought betting more on the turn would make villain think I was totally bluffing. My confusion comes because the pot on the turn was so small that I would not be able to bluff the river or get some value if I hit. Regardless of villain's true hand, am I better off checking the turn and taking a free card or making a decent sized bet and setting up the bluff or value bet? If so, what is a good bet to make on the turn?

Last edited by Scared Donkey; 05-26-2008 at 12:15 PM.
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 12:21 PM
It's your pot, and he led into you. In my limited experience this is usually a blocking bet, and raising it is +EV. I'd read it to mean a draw he wants to see more streets with or some made hand he wants to see a relatively cheap showdown with. Regardless of that, or in addition to that, you've got good equity so I'd definitely raise.

As played, I'd probably take the free card on the turn. If he's actually looking at what you're doing and not just his own cards, your turn lead is more or less confusing. After 9 hands, he's got no reads on you either, and, to me, your line doesn't necessarily scream overpair. If I'm some random jerk and I wanted to put you on AK, you haven't necessarily given me reason enough not to yet.. Your bet does put pressure on him and he hasn't showed a lot of strength so it can't be that bad. Unless his check means he has J8. :>
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 12:32 PM
i would raise the flop like others stated. also if villian calls flop bet i would check behind on turn. as played i like a check behind on the turn but thats just because im a nit.
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared Donkey
My confusion comes because the pot on the turn was so small that I would not be able to bluff the river or get some value if I hit.
Your heart is in the right place, but the villains stack size is wrong for this move. You can´t scare him on the river if he checks, compare river starting pot size to his remaining stack pls.

Overall plan is neighboring FPS imo but can be good in the right spot.
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 01:38 PM
As played, you need to check behind the turn because he's going to C/C with almost any pair since you showed no aggression on the flop.

I would raise his flop donk bet, mainly because I would raise with pretty much my entire range in this spot. I tend not to give donk bets much credit because villain's do this crap with hands like 8,8 or A,9 to "see where they're at".
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote
05-26-2008 , 11:14 PM
Raise the flop, you have plenty of fold equity. Small donk bets are usually a sign of weakness, people at this level generally arent good enough to balance b/3b w/ a donk bluff/blocking bet. If he calls, take the free card because if you hit on the river you dont have to overbet to stack him since he has a small stack.

In general, try to streamline your decision making, this is definitely bordering on FPS. If you're raising from the CO its pretty much impossible to represent an overpair because your stealing range should be pretty large. 3bet pots and UTG raises are a better place to try representing a big hand. Also, you have to be mindful of stack sizes. If you want to push him off a medium strength hand you want to be able to bluff with way more money then he had. Finally, 9 hands is a poor sample size to make decisions from so you should keep your play pretty simple.
50NL Disguising and Getting Money in for OESD Quote

      
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