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50NL BTN vs SB 3bet 50NL BTN vs SB 3bet

03-14-2011 , 06:34 PM
Villain is a 16/14 3.19 AF 3bet% from blinds of 11% Fold to Steal 88% 590 hands.
Other notes are that he's over aggressive with big pairs and he's a little bit of a calling station post.

He views me as a 12/10/2.5 ish fold to rs about 65%

I decided to flat ip due to his 3bet% and the smaller size of his 3bet. And because we are semi-deep. I know 4betting was an option, but I've not 4 bet him in this situation previously.

I flat the flop because I don't think I have much fold equity. I don't think he's ever folding an OP here. Is that incorrect? Should I call or fold turn?

    Full Tilt, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: $102 (204 bb)
    BB: $47.70 (95.4 bb)
    UTG+2: $50 (100 bb)
    MP1: $50 (100 bb)
    MP2: $45.25 (90.5 bb)
    MP3: $29.10 (58.2 bb)
    CO: $101.20 (202.4 bb)
    Hero (BTN): $76.40 (152.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with A 5
    5 folds, Hero raises to $1.30, SB raises to $4.40, BB folds, Hero calls $3.10

    Flop: ($9.30) 7 5 T (2 players)
    SB bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50

    Turn: ($20.30) 7 (2 players)
    SB bets $11, Hero ?


    Last edited by SaberTJ; 03-14-2011 at 06:38 PM. Reason: added that we are deep
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 06:37 PM
    i would just overbet shove over his flop bet lol.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 06:45 PM
    getting 3:1 + you being 25% to have the best hand otr + him being a station= you hit ur flush/ace he pays you off i call... ide 4bet or fold this hand as personal preference though
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 06:50 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Exothermic
    getting 3:1 + you being 25% to have the best hand otr + him being a station= you hit ur flush/ace he pays you off i call... ide 4bet or fold this hand as personal preference though
    4betting this hand deep is TERRIBLE.

    OP as played flat turn and see a river.

    I would just shove flop. You don't need fold equity as you are probably a favorite against his getting in range on the flop.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 06:53 PM
    Isn't our SPR much too large here to shove the flop?
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 07:02 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SaberTJ
    Isn't our SPR much too large here to shove the flop?
    i mean in general yeah. 150bb deep and such. it's very awkward to play though with these spr's and the hand that we flopped cause having the pair is nice but still makes it strange. obviously raise/stackoff is fine and would probably be my default. but, you really don't want to get flatted and then have him open ship a non-diamond turn. you just end up in all kinds of of horrible spots. like i said, awkward. and it would be awesome if you could get him to look you up light in this kind of spot so you can shove AA or whatever. i mean if he's calling off QQ+ here that is in all likelihood kind of meh right? then you can be shoving AA+

    but anyway

    i think flatting the flop is okay.

    need to know more about your image though and villain's. how wide do you flat a 3bet in this spot? how often does villain make hero calls? or at least how often you fold to 3bets in general. clearly your range is going to be wider cause you are deep.

    also 4betting pre is bad.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 07:05 PM
    My range here is dependent on the villain. Most of the time A5s is a fold. But because we are deep, he stacks off light, and he's quite aggro I called here.

    My standard calling range would prob be around 1010+ AJs, AQ. It's going to be a bit wider against this guy.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 07:10 PM
    So you say he is passive in some way and never folds overpairs. He keeps betting half pot just keep calling with your pot odds and raise him when you hit the 5,A or a diamond. No need to raise anywhere else even tho I would have probably raised the flop :P But with your read just go call mode.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 07:10 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SaberTJ
    My range here is dependent on the villain. Most of the time A5s is a fold. But because we are deep, he stacks off light, and he's quite aggro I called here.

    My standard calling range would prob be around 1010+ AJs, AQ. It's going to be a bit wider against this guy.
    A5s is quite a bit wider lol. so we can't have 87s and stuff.

    this is an aside but against guys like this you can easily be profitable flatting things like 78s, 9Ts etc. just look at a fold equity calculator and your equity on various boards and how you think villain's react.

    as played. ugh. my gut reaction is to call but i need to think about it some.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 08:00 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Salats
    So you say he is passive in some way and never folds overpairs. He keeps betting half pot just keep calling with your pot odds and raise him when you hit the 5,A or a diamond. No need to raise anywhere else even tho I would have probably raised the flop :P But with your read just go call mode.
    Villain is anything but passive
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 08:01 PM
    4betting pre is really awful, can't really do anything wrong on the flop or turn tbh
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 08:10 PM
    ?

    Why is 4betting pre awful? I think this is a good stacksize to 4bet bluff.

    As played, I'd probably raise flop/get it in, we have 50% equity against JJ+ with our pair+FD
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 08:14 PM
    bluffing with sooted ace with position 150 deep, v expert
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 08:24 PM
    i like makin' a sml rr otf fwiw...
    w/ the intention of jammin' over his cib.
    but i lost 19.6 bis yesterday so.. .oooo.. ya.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 08:32 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ricepaw1226
    i like makin' a sml rr otf fwiw...
    w/ the intention of jammin' over his cib.
    but i lost 19.6 bis yesterday so.. .oooo.. ya.
    I like raising flop too. If we end up having to get it in we are going to be like 50/50 against everything but a set pretty much. Has to be +ev considering he will fold hands we are behind sometimes as well.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 09:08 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Filet-O-Fish
    ?

    Why is 4betting pre awful? I think this is a good stacksize to 4bet bluff.

    As played, I'd probably raise flop/get it in, we have 50% equity against JJ+ with our pair+FD
    Stacks are also decent (although deeper would be better) for a 5bet bluff by the villain, but not sure if he's at that level.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 09:13 PM
    150bb deep= not as deep as people are making it out to be.. just saying... also who in the world calls a 4bet oop without the top of their range? and who 5bet shoves here except for hippey hey and doomsdays light?....
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 09:17 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Exothermic
    150bb deep= not as deep as people are making it out to be.. just saying... also who in the world calls a 4bet oop without the top of their range? and who 5bet shoves here except for hippey hey and doomsdays light?....
    Agreed that 150BB is not that deep. However, 5bet doesn't need to be a shove -- questionable whether people have this line at 50NL.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 09:25 PM
    I like raising turn imo, he's never barreling air here and a turn raise is kind of sick since we can't be doing that with JJ, so it's either TT/7x/55/really good draws, I think he has QQ/KK a lot here and it's a tough spot and he must know vs most of our value range he's calling a river shove if he decides to call our turn raise as well.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 09:47 PM
    Flatting 3b pre is definitely better play with this stack size and villain. I like a decent raise OTF and get it in if he's game. As played, I think I call turn but to be honest, I'm not terribly excited. Maybe I have some sort of MUBS from reading too many 2p2 HH's but if we hit OTR I suspect we are either a) not getting paid or b) we are crushed. Aggro villain + 2 streets of 1/2psb's = he's either not terribly attached or slowplaying IMO.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 10:35 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLusty
    Flatting 3b pre is definitely better play with this stack size and villain. I like a decent raise OTF and get it in if he's game. As played, I think I call turn but to be honest, I'm not terribly excited. Maybe I have some sort of MUBS from reading too many 2p2 HH's but if we hit OTR I suspect we are either a) not getting paid or b) we are crushed. Aggro villain + 2 streets of 1/2psb's = he's either not terribly attached or slowplaying IMO.
    You think if a 5/flush rolls off he's c/f ? Even if an A does fall he's either got AK or QQ/KK and might c/c a bet.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-14-2011 , 11:01 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by A God Awful Player
    You think if a 5/flush rolls off he's c/f ? Even if an A does fall he's either got AK or QQ/KK and might c/c a bet.
    I don't think we can narrow him to just those three hands ... he's 11% 3b from the blinds. And yes, I realize I sound a little paranoid but that's only the case if the world isn't out to get you.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-15-2011 , 12:21 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pokerarb
    can't really do anything wrong on the flop or turn tbh
    +1

    It really is an all purposes hand ... great spot to mix it up imo.

    I hate shoving the flop tho. You might as well turn your hand face up, plus you can put more pressure on him using different lines, and by making a small raise you can induce him to cib or shove with worse.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-15-2011 , 12:25 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLusty
    I don't think we can narrow him to just those three hands ... he's 11% 3b from the blinds. And yes, I realize I sound a little paranoid but that's only the case if the world isn't out to get you.
    You misunderstand, on those rivers the villain shouldn't believe we've exactly hit them enough for him to simply c/f. The flush being the most obvious and that being the biggest part of our range within the range I detailed would be the only c/f I could see occurring.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote
    03-15-2011 , 02:29 AM
    Got it. I was just saying that the way he's playing makes me think he's got JJ or TT. I didn't mean we wouldn't get a single penny more, I just meant there may be little or no IO.
    50NL BTN vs SB 3bet Quote

          
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