UTG is a lag playing 27/21 over 3k hands.

CO is a huge fish playing 54/24 with 13% 3B over 370 hands. He's your std maniac.
FtCB 29%. WTSD 30%.

Villain (MP) is another lag playing 29/24 over 5.3k hands. He also plays higher.
CB Flop 74%
CB Turn 61%
WWSF 52%
WTSD 28%
W$SD 52%

relevant Notes:
small bets IP (cbets too) with air
raises turn as total bluff often
barrels very light
overbet:
- shoved when I xb the turn A after I x/r flop and he called
- with set on wet board ott on my cb

SB: $39.50
BB: $86.03
UTG: $49.14
MP: $114.63
CO: $86.20
Hero (BTN): $49.25

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has K A

UTG raises to $1.60, MP raises to $5.50, CO calls $5.50, Hero calls $5.50, SB calls $5.25, fold, UTG calls $3.90

Flop: ($28, 5 players) 6 9 K
SB checks, UTG checks, MP bets $21, fold, Hero calls $21, fold, fold

Turn: ($70, 2 players) T
MP checks, Hero checks

River: ($70, 2 players) 8
MP checks, hero?


Actually during this hand I considered all options pre and post flop but I'd like to hear your opinion first. Obviously there is big dynamics with this maniac on CO.

4b/gii pre

as played obvious shove flop

$0.50

Our range is clearly strong, but I wouldn't expect him to cbet worse unless he decided to 3b KQ or KJ. Considering we've got 1/3 pot back, I think we have to shove.

Just shove the flop, he's betting big it into 4 people ~ he's never bluffing & we're never folding. We're freerolling v AK and he might 3b KQ,KJ or KT pre and isn't gonna fold to a shove.

Our hand is so strong that its better to just call since we arent going to fold anyways. Keeping our range wider- especially good since there are still players to act who might have some dominated draws or K Q type hands to call with.

Would like more people to answer the pre question. Doesnt seem like a good spot to slowplay anything since it looks to be a 4 way pot.

Thing is we're not happy to GII against MP's 5bet range despite him being LAG (we look so so strong when we cold 4bet here), and even a 54/24 is going to be able to fold a lot of the time, not to mention UTG's range is at its strongest. I like the flat pre.

pre is fine because we have position on the fish and a premium drawing/TPTK hand

no reason to raise the flop because we are gii anyway

shove turn when checked to

exactly my thoughts till this point.

You think I beat >50% of his calling range? Or is it better to let him shove river which he might do as bluff (thinking I missed my FD) or with worse?

Pre is fine, raise the flop

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Here is the breakdown of playing versus a maniac, as told by Thomas Bakker in Analytical NLH:

Essentially, 2 types of maniacs exist; each has a different range structure.

Some maniacs bluff too much with complete air, so our strategy versus them is to induce a bluff, which checking behind on the turn accomplishes. They have a narrower calling range because when we raise they fold their air and continue only with strong (relatively) hands.

Others will bet too much with marginal hands, such that they turn these hands into bluffs. However, they have a wider calling range as a result. Our strategy against them is to raise for value lighter.

I think that you are correct in pointing out that checking back on the turn allows villain to bluff, which appears to be consistent with Maniac #1. However, Maniac #2 could just as easily "value bet" a worse hand on the river. To be honest, shoving the turn is the standard play and that is what I try to advocate in these forums. If you were deeper, I would say check behind. However, since you have < 1 PSB left our opponent will perhaps realize that you are sorta committed to the pot so that decreases the probability of them bluffing imo. Moreover, hands that villain would value bet on the river when we check behind may not if a scare card comes.

I'd 4bet pre
Call flop and shove turn as played
Well do you think you beat >50% of his river betting range?

I'm 4betting pre aswell with 100bb (a little less actually). Call flop is good, Would even say raising is pretty bad. Shove turn as played.

why can't we shove flop with just $23 behind?

can you explain why raising is bad please?

There really are no cards we are afraid of OTT and barely any cards that can kill the action if villain is betting for value. After looking again I wouldn't say raising is really bad, but with 2 villains behind there is a much bigger chance they will make mistakes when you call flop than when you raise.

I agree with call flop for sure when we know we are never folding after that, especially with players still behind

definitly 4bet preflop

shoving the flop is +EV...we are just trying to discern if flatting is ++EV

I can see merits in gii pre. Or even when we cold 4bet and everyone folds its a very good result for us but there is also the chance for the maniac fish to call and be in a great spot.
But if UTG or MP dont fold then I dont think we are in front very often when gii.
Still cant decide what is better in this spot.

The range I give to MP for 3Betting pre and cbetting flop: 99+, AK, KQ (sometimes), KJ (sometimes)
Cant really see any draws apart from sometimes QJdd and JTdd which I dont think he 3Bets pre that often if at all. Also not sure how often he will 3Bet med pps (so TT and 99 maybe he calls pre sometimes or never). With the fish left to act I believe he will cbet this with the whole range I gave above, however, his sizing looks pretty strong but still I crush his range so far.

My range ott looks like strong Kx, FDs and sets that I didnt raise flop with. Now, what part of his range he will check turn when called by me otf? And this is what confused me. Is he checking turn for me to shove all my FDs and Kx so he can snap me with his set? If Im committed with me FD why didnt he shove turn to get value? Or is he x/fing with his JJ,QQ so no point for me to shove?

Btw CO is the maniac fish. UTG and MP(Villain) are lag regs and especially MP is a very good one.

But still your last post convinced me that is better to check back turn.

It's very wishful thinking villain will bluff with potsize as it is. It's very optimistic at best. Think it's waaaaay more likely he makes a bad call OTT than he is to bluff river or make a bad call OTR.

call flop, jam turn

i dont understand why that is the case. i probably just suck at explaining myself because i want you to shove the turn...

Another reason to shove the turn is if you make a flush on the river he'll only call a bet with sets and maybe AA, and based on his turn check its unlikely he even has a set. AA may not be in his turn checking range either.

Just get the money in now before he finds a reason to fold on the river or worse sucks out on you.