UTG is a 32/12/AF2.8 fish
BB is a 37/33 over 30 hands, but we've already tangled in some 3b pots, and he seems to have tried to out-agress me in a few spots.

Since the flush came in, and the J paired on the river, is this a spot for a river overbet, even shove? Or just a normal bet size.

What would you go for?

eh he might get scared of the flush if you shove, I think I just pot it again.

I like a bet size that accomplishes: getting max value from Jx & gives em room to raise with a flush. So I'm thinking $4.5 to $5? Although a psb could be better, depends on how you think they'll perceive a psb.

I'm tempted to say c/r the river but i think betting $5.50 and hoping flushes get raise happy might be the better play

With two villains calling the turn, there's a good chance that one has trip jacks and the other a flush. I'd just bet the pot, hoping that either (or both) will shove.

with 2 fish in the hand, this is an easy shove, u will get called by any random J and a flush

4.50

i think this is a good spot for a c/r. shoving is by far the worst option.

+1 to check raise... small flushes just calls & only a-k-q high flushes probably raises & full houses.. jx & small/medium flushes ide expect to bet like 100% & probably call a c/raise as well....

njd hope you finally beat the devil this time around...

This was exactly my thinking and I did go for the shove. I mean yeah it folds out a lot of their range a lot of the time, but the times they have flushes make up for it because they are never ever folding and we win a full stack. It seems like one of those low frequency high reward spots.

I do think c/r has a lot of merit on the river aswell.

Why would you ever shove here? Bet $3 to value from under pairs here. By shoving you lose out on that kind of value. No one is ever just calling $3 with a Jack or flush.

If either of em have a flush they're gonna raise a normal sized bet cause they "haz flush"

If they have a J they will fold it to a shove some %, will call some % & will raise a normal sized river cb some % too maybe depending on their kicker.
So you're missing some value I think.

I don't think c/r is great because although you get an extra bet when they have Jx you may not get their stacks (or close to) the times they have small flushes cause they'll just call your c/r rather than having to call your 3b if it had went raise, re raise. Also there is the times they have underpairs & check behind as mentioned by teddie.
I think a few of ev cals & range weighting would 100% solve this hand as it seems people are on opposite sides of the fence here.
I'm lazy for not doing em, but I have things to do & they'll take a while!

I would blockbet/shove here.

UTG+1 never has a J here (why would he check behind the flop) and BBs range is too freaking wide here so put him out a J.

A blockbet allows them to call with their marginals hand and raise with their flushes.

shoves bad bc it folds j

People are way too concerned with Js in this hand. The chances that UTG has a J are 0% and for BB I doubt it is higher than 20%.