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50nl 1010 Rivered Flush 50nl 1010 Rivered Flush

09-01-2009 , 06:10 PM
Villian is 23/20/1 over 500 hands. Villian doesn't like folding to 3bets, I'm not sure if river is a check/call, or bet/call. I don't think I can see him shoving worse here even if he did flat jj with j of clubs. I guess he either has ace of clubs or is completely bluffing. How is my line before river and what line is optimal on this river as played?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $75.25
MP: $82.30
CO: $15.25
BTN: $30.80
Hero (SB): $51.00
BB: $50.60

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with T T
1 fold, MP raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, MP calls $5

Flop: ($14.50) J K Q (2 players)
Hero bets $7.50, MP calls $7.50

Turn: ($29.50) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

River: ($29.50) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP raises to $67.80 all in, Hero?
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09-01-2009 , 06:11 PM
Why do you bet river?
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09-01-2009 , 10:06 PM
That is a good question. I guess if I can answer that I can answer what I should do.
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09-01-2009 , 10:33 PM
Very difficult for villain to have a worse flush in his range to call with on the river so your bet doesn't rate to be a value-bet that often. He can pretty easily have the Jc, and given his river action its fairly clear he has the Ac or is bluffing the Ac because it is unlikely that we have it given our turn check. If we had reads this could potentially be a spot to hero call since villain is polarized to shove river (since he would only shove Ac and mostly calls behind with Jc) but mostly this is a fold imo.
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09-01-2009 , 10:50 PM
why did you bet the flop?
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09-02-2009 , 04:07 AM
I bet the flop because I didn't want to check and possibly be bluffed off the hand. I think betting the flop allows me to see another card or two and try to hit the nuts.
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09-02-2009 , 04:56 AM
We only have to be right 1:5, but 1AF is very low.
It's a good bluff spot, I would be shoving about every hand on the river if I was villain.
So to me it looks like a call, but it's close.. c/c on river is probably best to give him some room to bluff worse.
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09-02-2009 , 05:03 AM
I think the problem starts preflop, because it looks like you weren't sure why you were 3betting or what villains ranges are. You say he doesn't like to fold to 3bets, but that doesn't tell us much.

1. what do you think his mp opening range is and what his 3bet flatting range is? Like does it include connectors, suited aces, and small pps? and
2. Is he going to play fit or fold postflop? Or is he going to be making plays at you?

These two are by far the more important considerations.

If villains flatting range doesn't include hands that you dominate, and he doesn't play straightforwardly postflop, I would just consider calling pre, as it's going to be really hard to play the hand.

If villains is going to play straightforwardly on the flop then I like the 3bet.

Once you got to the flop, if you thought he had all those weaker speculative hands, then I like the cbet, as well as the sizing. It's pretty hard to play back on a board like that.

If you thought it didn't include those weaker hands, well it's hard to say now since you are behind almost everything but you still have good equity against those hands. There is a small part of his range that he does fold to pressure which may or may not make up for the times you are behind when you bet aggressively. You'd have to do the math on that.

If not, I think chk calling and playing passively until you hit might be best, as dirty as that sounds.
As for the river as played, seems like a very easy fold.

Edit: I don't think betting the river is that bad since he could get some hero call, and villain always has a made hand that he's not going to turn into a bluff.

Last edited by allen; 09-02-2009 at 05:21 AM.
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09-02-2009 , 05:15 AM
River is C/C

Bet Flop more

the rest is fine (I like the Turn pot control and getting a free card play a lot, but after that play on the Turn, you have to C/C ANY River cause you induce bluffs with checking 2 streets)

betting the River is just spew cause nothing worse calls, almost nobody will bluff-push and you can induce him to bet worse hands by checking
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09-02-2009 , 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusedandlost
Villi I'm not sure if river is a check/call, or bet/call. I don't think I can see him shoving worse here even
Obviously not a b/c then.

I think I'd just c/c since we have a good bluffcatcher and he's going to be turning a made hand into a bluff on this river far more often than he calls a river bet with worse.

Fold as played.
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09-02-2009 , 07:28 AM
He has the A of clubs. This is never a bluff. On the river when you bet there are really no worse clubs that call. So you just want to get to showdown. It's not like he has 99 with a club very often. Or AT that might call is not going to be in his range because he didn't raise the flop. if he's bad you can bet really small, or if he's aggro you can bet really small and induce a raise. But when he shoves over your half pot its the A.
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