Minimal reads on villain, except that he's yr standard seems-solid-after-playing-against-for-80-hands guy (don't have PTKR on this comp); when I sat he had $2,700, stack barely wavered for an hour and a half. Actions OTR? Shove came after 15 seconds.

Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $2479.00
BTN: $3939.65
Hero (SB): $1527.00
BB: $335.00
UTG: $1000.00
UTG+1: $1000.00
MP: $1179.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is SB with 2 2
3 folds, CO raises to $20, 1 fold, Hero calls $15, 1 fold

Flop: ($50.00) 2 5 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $30, Hero calls $30

Turn: ($110.00) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $90, Hero calls $90

River: ($290.00) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $225, CO raises to $2339 all in, Hero ???

Best play OTR? (Prolly obvious, one way or another).

lol no.

you didn't want to raise the flop?

or the turn?

as of now, call, and win,

but I hope you lose.

No.

At no point do I think I'm anywhere near behind to CO donkery until riv shove.

ill start it off by saying i dont really know wtf is up with the line you took. if you decide to take the c/c line on the flop instead of c/r then i would also be going for a c/r on this river to let him continue to barrel air (our hand looks weak) or value-bet 99+. with no real reads on his overbetting tendencies i think i like a fold as played on the river

I don't get turn c/r at all. Against this guy, I think you either get shoved on w/higher set or fold cuz villain isn't an idiot and I severely, severely doubt he would take that line w/KK-AA or continue w/AQ-KQ.

crai>b/c IMO

shrug and call

edit: didnt realize how big his shove was yea actually its really gross.

c/shove river

Yeah... betting out on the river was dumb.

c/r flop > c/c c/c c/r >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your line

As played, it's gross. He made a big overshove. I guess fold, because i'd expect 5x to raise river much smaller.

i mean, is this really thread worthy? we're obviously not in the business of folding fullhouses where the range of hands that beats us are limited. yea, ok, 150bb's, but i mean whatever, call and if you have any epic soulread to as why this should not be a call, specially given your line, im sure you would know it much better than us. I mean what are you really expecting people to reply here?

leading the river is very bad.

cr is better than cc, cc, c/jam, but that is still way better than the line u took.

I'd like the river donk a bit more if 7 had paired instead of 5. Now it's just plain horrible as you don't have many 5x in our range and hence shouldn't really ever donk.

OTF I'd c/r but I don't hate a c/c if you think you're going to have a wide c/c range.I would still c/r turn.


As played really hard to say since I don't know your range for donking river (mine would be exclusively {red joker and an Uno card}). You're obviously bluffcatching so just try to call often enough for villains bluffs to break even, unless your reads suggest otherwise.

tsojo, that's a great post, but do you really expect a guy who took this line to benefit without a ton more explanation?

tsojojo wins this thread

True, but even if the 7 paired and we WANT to have a donkrange we still wouldnt wanna donk 22 here, we would donk our 7x hands.

When thinking about it a bit more it doesnt really matter which card that pairs, on this particular boards its completely impossible for us to show up with a hand we would want to bluff with so we should simply check all our strong hands trying to represent the weaker part of our c/c range..

Betting out on the river was really bad, but at the end of the day, I don't get his play either. He thinks it's unlikely i have a 5 - okay. In that case what the hell does he put me on then that merits the shove? He think I'm blocking w/AQ-KQ and he can get me off it? Does A5 raise(/shove?) here for value and expect to be called by anything worse? Does 55/77/QQ/75ss really close-to-instashove? And double-pot? Wat?

Had I my wits about me, I think my line would have ended up being cc cc c/r, despite a flop c/r maybe being better (7-handed to CO raise, I'm comfortable w/flop cc). Either way, the donklead w/9th nuts was sht, cuz this ***** happens and I have to make an am-I-supposed-to-drop-a-full-house thread.

i dont really get why a seven would be better and im perfectly happy calling

Width of our c/r range should depend on our c/c range. If we donk a larger part of our range, we should obviously c/r less than when not having a donkbet range.


It does since a competent villain will check back vast majority of time if he thinks we're never donking river when 7 pairs. 5 pairing doesn't scare his overpairs.

Yes

We still cant lead the river for value if we never bluff in that spot and tbh, I cant see one hand we would wanna bluff..

Well, that's generally the problem with donkbetting. We're just going to turn some bluffcatchers into bluffs.

Yeah, and that makes sense to do on certain boards but on this one I cant see a better strategy than checking 100%.

do you not think once we c/c the turn that villain can fire a ton of rivers with air to try and get us off our perceived hand (7x/88)? i prefer calling turn and c/r river since then it allows us to pick up an extra bet from villain.

exaclty, hes never bluffing huge nor value raising worse with this huge size. Id fold and i dont think its that close.

What do you put him on, then? 1160ish raise over 720?