4NL checked to post flop w under pair - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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4NL checked to post flop w under pair

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02-17-2012 , 12:23 PM

MrE

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 63

I almost always B/F here.
Vs a reg, is there any value in...
C/C?
B/C?

Cake - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $3.00
UTG: $2.00
MP: $2.01
Hero (CO): $2.18
BTN: $1.27
SB: $0.89

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has T

fold, MP calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.16, fold, SB calls $0.14, fold, MP calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.52, 3 players) A

SB checks, MP checks, [color=red]Hero ???

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02-17-2012 , 02:21 PM

yoshi02

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 323

I check back...horrible board for us to cbet imo.

btw:
- buy in full
- get another table, wtf is this no one is playing fullstacked

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02-17-2012 , 02:31 PM

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

Bet ... the flop smacks your perceived range plus you have BD straight and flush draws.

Must be a short stack buy-in table ...

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02-17-2012 , 02:36 PM

Myopic Llama

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,296

Horrible board to cbet, especially 3 way.

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02-17-2012 , 02:40 PM

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myopic Llama

Horrible board to cbet, especially 3 way.

So give up on the hand? Ax would bet this board so if I'm either of the other two players I'm going to fire turn and river to take it away from you.

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02-17-2012 , 03:12 PM

daily147

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 232

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi02

- get another table, wtf is this no one is playing fullstacked

Could be a good sign

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02-17-2012 , 03:28 PM

MrE

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by daily147

Could be a good sign

It was a "shallow" buy-in table.
I do usually avoid them, but had just logged in, in the AM, and table selection was limited.

So yeah, back to the original question...

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02-17-2012 , 04:51 PM

yoshi02

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 323

true, sorry. I always filter the lobby to not show them (always play 100bb), so I'm not used to see those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D0nkM@st3r

So give up on the hand? Ax would bet this board so if I'm either of the other two players I'm going to fire turn and river to take it away from you.

if turn is a blank then I would (maybe) call a weak bet. and if it is checked to us again I fire. but giving up on the hand is not bad imo. other than Ax, anyone can be holding Qx too, so bluffing here is suicide

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02-18-2012 , 02:11 AM

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

If you are not betting this flop, what flops are you betting?

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02-18-2012 , 02:15 AM

#10

DaycareInferno

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 18,285

uh, 469? J24? are you trying to say this is an ideal flop for us or something?

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02-18-2012 , 02:18 AM

#11

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

Just trying to learn ... so only CB if the flop is a disconnected rainbow?

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02-18-2012 , 02:28 AM

#12

DaycareInferno

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 18,285

i didnt say that at all. just making the point that there's a ton of flops that are obviously better to bet than this one, so its pretty dumb to say "if you're not betting this flop, what flops are you betting?"

its a 3way pot, your hand is fairly crappy, and most villains aren't really that worried about your percieved range. they're still going to call with Ax, Qx, and decent draws.

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02-18-2012 , 02:30 AM

#13

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

Since this is a short stacked donk fest, I'd estimate their preflop calling ranges to be about ...

TT-22,AJs-ATs,A5s-A2s,KTs+,QTs+,J9s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,43 s,AJo-ATo,KTo+,QTo+,JTo

Plug that into pokerstove for the two callers versus our TcTd and we have 36% equity versus their 33%. Aren't we supposed to bet when we have an equity advantage? To me checking back makes this hand a lot harder to play imo. Correct me if I'm wrong ...

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02-18-2012 , 02:43 AM

#14

DaycareInferno

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 18,285

it doesn't matter what your equity is vs. their pf calling range when you're betting the flop.

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02-18-2012 , 02:49 AM

#15

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

agreed ... my brain starts to shutdown at this hour.

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02-18-2012 , 02:56 AM

#16

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

okay so i plugged this into cardrunners ev calculator and the flop equities are about the same ... but with that said, i think what you are saying is that this is a marginal spot to CB at best. i can see that ... i just see a lot of people peeling these flops with 1P+draw and then folding to a turn and/or river barrel. Or they see an ace and they put us on exactly AK and fold. that was my point.

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02-18-2012 , 10:03 AM

#17

OMG_LadyGaga

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,302

^ I kinda get what you're saying but I'd be more likely to make a small stab with like 78 rather than TT on this flop against two opponents. TT has showdown value and like mentioned backdoor equity. We accomplish absolutely nothing by betting, we don't fold out anything better. I'm happy taking this to showdown as cheaply as possible.

If heads up tho, there's merit in cbetting this as we can't really check back and then call a turn lead by an opponent unless our equity improves dramatically.

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02-18-2012 , 12:00 PM

#18

D0nkM@st3r

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 91

Since this is a short stacked micro table with a lot of loose passive players checking down does make sense. Maybe this is why I've been playing micros so long! Haha. Against a decent weak tight player it's so tempting to b/b/s because their preflop flatting range rarely connects with this flop well. And like you said this makes more sense if we are talking about HU.

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