Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
Hero ($52.50)
BB ($22)
UTG ($66.05)
UTG+1 ($40.55)
UTG+2 ($127)
MP1 ($66)
MP2 ($85.10)
CO ($50)
BTN ($50)

Dealt to Hero Q Q

fold, fold, UTG+2 raises to $1.50, fold, MP2 raises to $5.25, fold, fold

Initial raiser is 41/24 aggro fish, 3better is 18/13 with 7% 3bet, 5% from MP, fold to 4bet 4 times of 12. Is this good spot to 4bet and get it in with QQ because his 3bet range will be even looser in this case because of maniac opening and he can even shove over my 4bet with worse hands while it looks he doesnt like to fold once he makes a 3bet?

Never know which way to go with these. Folding is the easy option. However we can 4bet and be prepared to stack off or we can 4 bet and be prepared to fold but then our hand may as well be 72o. What are both players 4bet ranges? Id probably 4bet to about $12 or $13 and be prepared to stack off if they had high 4bet ranges.

4bet/get it in.

If UTG+2 wasn't an aggro fish, this could have been a fold.

3bettors stacking off range and 3betting range are very differn't. This is imo is not a stack off because any time you are stacking off here you are vs a range of ak/qq+ which crushes us.

When we 4bet here we turn our hand into a bluff.

Fold or call - whichever is most comfortable.

This spot looks ok I think and I'd be more inclined to 4bet the better you think MP2 is. I might throw up in my mouth a little bit if he snap shoves, but I think the better he is, the more broadways he's going to have for a wide 3bet value range vs aggro fish - AJ, KJ type stuff.

Folding's always an option too. You just can't flat here being SB imo.

I'm pretty sure calling is the worst possible move exept maybe 4bet/fold.

i dont like get to QQ AIPF playing FR, but there if was ever a good spot to do it, i think this is it.


I would not call, prob the worst thing to do imo.

yeah get this in and flip good

I get this in, and flip bad

I really dont get the reasoning here for 4betting. We have a very loose and bad player who is unlikely to call a 4bet who we could keep in the pot.

MP2 raises to $5.25 mp2 goes larger with his 3bet because the fish is price in-elastic and is imo more likely to do this with a stronger hand. If you 4bet here I really think you are crushed range wise when they continue. Even though he knows we know his range here is wide, he's not going to start stacking off with less than a AK QQ+ range.

Balance playing the pot oop with having the juicy fish in the pot

i dont think there is too much need for balancing @ 50nl. I think there is enough dead money in the pot to 4bet and get folds. By calling our hand is pretty face up as AK TT-QQ perhaps even JJ-QQ.

fish will most likely calling our 4bet with a wide range. the Reg has a 7% 3bet which is quite high for FR, so i like a 4bet for value call a shove, + we may be able to get the pot HU with fish if reg folds. I dont think playing QQ 3way in 3bet pots is gonna be the most ev+ in the long run tbh.

Can't believe noone is even entertaining the idea of cold calling here. We keep the fish in, if he 4bets and and MP2 folds we can fistpump, if MP2 ships over a 4bet we can mayyyybe fold but idk tough with all the dead money. if the fish flats we get to play a pot vs a fish and a wide value range vs MP2(if he is decent he should have little bluffs in his range but a widee value range vs the fish) and we can always lead raggy flops, steal the initiative and iso the fish. By 4betting we just mostly fold out the fish and play vs the top of MP2s range. Seems like being OOP is a small price to pay for all the upside. Also lol at thinking MP2 is going to ship worse to a cold 4bet, he may be 3betting hands like TT,JJ, AQ, and even worse, but he is SNAP folding all of that to a cold 4bet from us.

I still not like being with QQ in 3way 3bet pot oop - we hate A and K and dont like J on the flop - and at least one of these cards will be there very often...

And also get a lot of folds to make it profitable or sometimes stack off the fish... That was my idea.

Plus even if our range is kinda face up, MP2 will play straight 3way with a fish and fish can't hand read so its not much of a problem.

Yes there are a lot of flops we don't like, but there are also a lot of flops we do like. I have no problem just c/folding a bad flop. Still seems a lot better than 4betting and forcing out the fish and playing vs MP2s continuance range which has us crushed or flipping at best.

I would say if 3better is standart reg with MP 3bet 2% or 3% then it is a fold. But if he is 3betting more than 6%, I think I must get it in.

I think we do quite well against his range - sometimes he will maybe push JJ or AQs giving us 40% equity against his range and we will also get a ton of folds to make it profitable. And sometimes the fish will shove his AJo

You are way off. First off, he should be 3betting a dif range then if a reg opened. 2nd the bulk of his range snap folds to a cold 4bet. Just because someone 3bets 6% doesn't mean they are continuing with anything close to 6%. Good spot to 4bet bluff a HU pot if he 3bet LP vs LP or something, but doing it in THIS spot with QQ is just no good imo.

He won't push any of those hands to a cold 4bet without some dynamic. Yea we get folds but so what? We get the same amount of folds regardless of what we have, and we WANT to play a pot with QQ vs the fish, that should be our main objective here. If the fish wants to play for stacks with AJo he will prob just 4bet himself after we flat anyway.

Dosnt calling just about turn our hand face up? Also do we know the 41/24 is a bad player? Ok he is aggro but even someone with half a brain will know what is going on here when we cold call the 3bet. If he shoves will we be happy calling off our stack?

Edit:- it would be good if people put Sample size in their posts.

Fish - small sample under 100, reg large sample - thousands.