4bet Pot OOP - Flop play 5NL ACR - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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4bet Pot OOP - Flop play 5NL ACR

View Poll Results: Do you continuation bet this flop?

Yes cbet

12 80.00%

No check

3 20.00%

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04-17-2019 , 03:15 PM

DooDooPoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,491

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem $0.05(BB)
BTN ($5.12) [VPIP: 24.8% | PFR: 12.4% | AGG: 28.6% | 3-Bet: 11.3% | Hands: 145]
SB ($5) [VPIP: 17.6% | PFR: 13.8% | AGG: 25.5% | 3-Bet: 8.5% | Hands: 167]
BB ($7.91) [VPIP: 38.5% | PFR: 25.6% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 8.9% | Hands: 121]
HERO ($11.66) [VPIP: 26.6% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 32.5% | 3-Bet: 10.9% | Hands: 49688]
CO ($10.41) [VPIP: 35.9% | PFR: 23.1% | AGG: 46.7% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 41]

Dealt to Hero: K

HERO Raises To $0.11, CO Calls $0.11, BTN Raises To $0.45, SB Folds, BB Folds, HERO Raises To $1.30, CO Folds, BTN Calls $0.85

Hero SPR on Flop: [1.37 effective]
Flop ($2.78): 5

HERO ?

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04-17-2019 , 04:08 PM

Markulous

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,530

Due to stacks, I think I 4-bet slightly more so I can just naturally shove when the flop hits.

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04-17-2019 , 04:30 PM

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Markulous

Due to stacks, I think I 4-bet slightly more so I can just naturally shove when the flop hits.

What do you do if we are 200BB's deep then?

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04-17-2019 , 04:33 PM

Markulous

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

What do you do if we are 200BB's deep then?

Then I usually like a smaller 4-bet. On this flop I think it's a pretty good one to lead out on with a BDFD/BDSD and it's likely missed our opponent's hand. Maybe like 1/3 PSB? I'd probably be c-betting my whole range here most of the time with a smaller sized bet.

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04-17-2019 , 05:01 PM

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Markulous

4bets should go up in sizing the deeper you get not down.

But we are ahead of his air? Seems to me like cbetting is just isolating us against strong ranges. Also he has 99 and we don't.

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04-17-2019 , 05:03 PM

Markulous

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,530

Either way in this situation, I still 4-bet slightly more to make it a natural shove. The pot is so big now, I don't think we can ever just x/f.

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04-17-2019 , 05:05 PM

Lunatic2333

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 342

I'd defo 4bet bigger PF being OOP and set up stacksize so we can shove flop if he cold calls. That being said, what range do we put villian on if he cold calls our 4bet? And what do we expect him to fold? I dont think based on stats villian is flatting our 4bet with a wide range. So by betting we make him fold hands we beat and if he shoves then what, call it off? With stacks as how they are i'd check. I doubt many players at these stackes will start bluffing in 4bet pots when checked to tbh.

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04-17-2019 , 07:21 PM

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,936

Am I missing something? Why would we ever cbet jam flop 100BB deep in a 4bp?

Cbet flop.

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04-17-2019 , 07:49 PM

JohnRusty

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

My gut reaction is to bet small with most of range, but I'm not really sure what it accomplishes, really. I can't imagine most people are disciplined enough to fold 99 here to a small bet (and I don't know that they should... it's very close). Although that's an argument for betting range, punish sticky 99s for when we have better overpairs.

x/jamming with AA/KK seems pretty neat. Not sure what your 4-bet range is, but maybe suited aces with BDFD and wheel draw could be nice bluff to balance. AKs with bdfd is probably a x/c depending on bet size.

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04-17-2019 , 08:14 PM

#10

xamlop

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRusty

AKs with bdfd is probably a x/c depending on bet size.

I'd call a shove if I check.

I think c-bet 1/4 or 1/3 with any hand is pretty good and makes things simple and there's value vs a lot of random floats and protection is important in big pots.

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04-17-2019 , 10:31 PM

#11

DooDooPoker

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Can we assign some ranges here? What do you think BTNs range is?

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04-17-2019 , 11:05 PM

#12

kvnd

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,277

Pretty narrow probably, 100% JJ, maybe some AKo, AQs, maybe a QQ. I've been betting 100% range for like 30-35% sizing in 4 bet pots lately on these low boards to fold out his whiffed A highs, in this case a size that may set up a 2/3 pot turn jam or so. I think I'd prefer to use AQo and A4s though and give up AK on turn, but Idk what your 4 bet range looks like

Last edited by kvnd; 04-17-2019 at 11:18 PM.

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04-18-2019 , 10:30 AM

#13

5trang3

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Can we assign some ranges here? What do you think BTNs range is?

I think it's something like TT-QQ, AA at some small freq. AK also at some small freq. AQs and that's about it most of the time.

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04-18-2019 , 10:32 AM

#14

5trang3

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 75

I usually range bet 1/4 on this flop, but I've been questioning how effective that is with a hand like AK when I think villain only folds AKo/AQs with no backdoors.

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04-18-2019 , 10:57 AM

#15

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 5trang3

I usually range bet 1/4 on this flop, but I've been questioning how effective that is with a hand like AK when I think villain only folds AKo/AQs with no backdoors.

Yeah if you think that is his real range then cbetting would be pretty bad. Not only can we get shoved on and get folded off our likely 20-25% equity to the pot but we are putting more money in the pot with close to zero fold equity.

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04-18-2019 , 11:10 AM

#16

xamlop

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Can we assign some ranges here? What do you think BTNs range is?

A few midpairs up to QQ maybe, some Ax, some SC, possibly some random brodways.

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04-18-2019 , 11:12 AM

#17

.isolated

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Yes cbet. Bet 25% pot. If we turn no equity, x/f.

I'm with Mark on this one. Bigger pre and jam flop but as played gotta do the above.

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04-18-2019 , 12:30 PM

#18

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,936

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

I'm with Mark on this one. Bigger pre and jam flop but as played gotta do the above.

Now I really feel like I am misreading the hand or something. Why are we 4b larger than 26BB when we are just north of 100BB effective and why do we want to jam flop?

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04-18-2019 , 01:06 PM

#19

.isolated

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

It seems like you disagree. We will agree to do so.

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04-18-2019 , 01:10 PM

#20

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xamlop

A few midpairs up to QQ maybe, some Ax, some SC, possibly some random brodways.

Does this seem like a reasonable range?

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04-18-2019 , 01:50 PM

#21

xamlop

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Does this seem like a reasonable range?

I think we can add a few combos of AQo maybe even AJo/KQo and maybe a few more suited stuff but obviously tough to say readless. I'd assume AKo/AKs are 5-betting pretty often, too.

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04-18-2019 , 09:56 PM

#22

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,936

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

It seems like you disagree. We will agree to do so.

I genuinely want to understand. Is it because of the cc'er + OOP means a larger 4b making spr approach 1 so we have easier decisions post? Is it also because our 4b range should be narrower in this spot?

If larger 4b size is higher EV then obviously I'm in.

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04-18-2019 , 10:14 PM

#23

JohnRusty

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Does this seem like a reasonable range?

I imagine AA and KK flat somewhat ofte. I can't imagine it's very good to call low suited aces to this 4-bet, even with position. If you assign this range I'd x/c

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04-18-2019 , 10:30 PM

#24

pokrr

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 659

In this position and against the pool's overall tightness here, shouldn't we just flat pre-flop a reasonable % in stead of 4-bet?

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