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400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop 400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop

09-02-2010 , 12:16 AM
Villain is a weird supernova elite playing 25/14 with agg% = 19, 3b = 3.3, def. on the massively passive and nitty side. I haven't seen him around (but then again i haven't played 2/4 in a while actually so I don't know if he usu. plays this), but he was sitting across multiple tables. If I had to guess though, he was probably not a regular at these games.

Out of the 500 hand size sample I have on him this sesh, he had a donk bet of 0% on 25 occassions, so this is the first time he's donking. Fold to cbet = 41%, raise cbet = 2%. So when he donked, I kinda froze (wasn't expecting it from him). c/r turn also 0/10 before this hand.

Some history, he might be steaming a little when I floated him with a-high in a 3bet pot, then got there on him for a medium sized pot, but that was about 30 mins before this happened. I've been taking a decent amount of pots from him, but don't think he's all that bothered by it (aka not all that tilted).

Questions:
1) Do you raise flop? (given that this was his first donk in 25 occassions)
2) Do you raise turn? (given the sizing and considering the donk flop)
3) Do you bet river? (if so, how much?)

Poker Stars $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $851.00
MP: $313.10
Hero (CO): $400.00
BTN: $814.50
SB: $408.00
BB: $476.10

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with 7 7
2 folds, Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, BB calls $8

Flop: ($26.00) 7 3 8 (2 players)
BB bets $16.00, Hero calls $16

Turn: ($58.00) K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $44.00, BB raises to $96, Hero calls $52

River: ($250.00) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero

FWIW, he checked river maybe after thinking for about 3 seconds (ie he didn't snap check)
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-02-2010 , 01:08 AM
gotta love SNE's.

I don't think there's any value in betting here especially if you say he's nitty. Tbh I have no idea what the **** he's doing here.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-02-2010 , 11:38 AM
Raise flop to $44
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-02-2010 , 11:43 AM
id check back because im super curious to what he has and i dunno what i can get value from,

id most probably flat flop as well because raising looks pretty strong.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-02-2010 , 02:53 PM
prefer a call on flop. i'd rather raise w/ overs + spade or something. usually bet river but i'd probably just check vs. a clown like this
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-02-2010 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuggetz87
prefer a call on flop. i'd rather raise w/ overs + spade or something. usually bet river but i'd probably just check vs. a clown like this
I disagree... This player doesn't strike me as the type to donk/fold and also doesn't strike me as the type to donk flushes.... I like a flop raise and obv we're calling if he shoves...
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-02-2010 , 07:19 PM
Really really weird hand.
I think raising or calling the flop is pretty close, every time I make up my mind one way I go another.

On the one hand, raising looks pretty strong (our hand is prob near the bottom of our value raising range). However, even though raising looks strong and we prob dont love to get 3b, we have great equity against any conceivable range villain continues with, and he could def b/c JJs, 78hh, AsQx or w/e he donked with. Plus if he b3b we can just ship it with indifference, not to mention if we have the best hand there is certainaly value in protecting it.

On the other hand, maybe we blow him off of red JJ, a weak naked flush draw, and we probably are probably a slight dog to his range if all the money goes in the middle on the flop.

I think your turn play is fine.

River again is close, esp cuz I am having a very difficult time figuring out wtf he could c/c with that he would play like this, but mostly I want to bet because we have a set, and I don't think I could b/f after he shows me this line.

edit: Would you play 77 differently than AAs here? Why?

Last edited by wdead; 09-02-2010 at 07:25 PM.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-02-2010 , 07:23 PM
wow nittilicious, raise the flop, go from there, as played deffo get some value.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-03-2010 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdead
Really really weird hand.
I think raising or calling the flop is pretty close, every time I make up my mind one way I go another.

On the one hand, raising looks pretty strong (our hand is prob near the bottom of our value raising range). However, even though raising looks strong and we prob dont love to get 3b, we have great equity against any conceivable range villain continues with, and he could def b/c JJs, 78hh, AsQx or w/e he donked with. Plus if he b3b we can just ship it with indifference, not to mention if we have the best hand there is certainaly value in protecting it.

On the other hand, maybe we blow him off of red JJ, a weak naked flush draw, and we probably are probably a slight dog to his range if all the money goes in the middle on the flop.

I think your turn play is fine.

River again is close, esp cuz I am having a very difficult time figuring out wtf he could c/c with that he would play like this, but mostly I want to bet because we have a set, and I don't think I could b/f after he shows me this line.

edit: Would you play 77 differently than AAs here? Why?
Yea part of the reason why I was debating betting river (as nitty as it sounds) is I couldn't really come up with hands in villain's range that will pay off a substantial river bet. Well, I guess you could say that I actually couldn't assign villain a range during the whole hand period. lol. That's why I was thinking maybe I could bet $80 or something, and I can comfortably fold if he shoves as I don't think he's going to be turning a made hand or As into a bluff (given player description).

FWIW, I probably play AAs the same
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-03-2010 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuggetz87
prefer a call on flop. i'd rather raise w/ overs + spade or something. usually bet river but i'd probably just check vs. a clown like this
How do you play a spade turn that he donks into you again?
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-03-2010 , 05:11 PM
he may have 0/25 on the donk opportunities but of those 25 situations how many of the boards were wet as this one. Plus he may not of had anything worth donking in other super wet board situations anyway. The donk seems like a semi-strong hand trying to protect to me most the time (33, 99-JJ, 87, 88, or small to med spade suited connectors) but more of his range i think is hands we beat (33, 99-JJ, 87).

I'd raise here for value and protection. If he 3bets, i'd call if we have an aggro image where he thinks we're raising light but i might fold if he doesn't think we're raising light. If he calls our raise, i dont think he's on a semi-strong hand, he'd probably be on the nut flush or maybe As8 and i'd proceed very cautiously and try to keep the pot small.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-03-2010 , 05:25 PM
Raise flop. as played vbet his KX with spade, bottom set or whatever. Line is very unusual, he showed you power but u call all of it, so i would vbetting river on his place with smth decent. If he plays flash that way just make a note.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-03-2010 , 05:34 PM
just check.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote
09-03-2010 , 07:30 PM
The check-minraise on the turn Really made me think he did not want you to bet the river. So you valuebet, but smallish incase he was **** around and raises you all-in. I prefer a little under half the pot.
400NL: Mid-set facing against unorthodox line by unorthodox villain on monotone flop Quote

      
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