400nl - fold bottom set to turnshove - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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400nl - fold bottom set to turnshove

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07-29-2008 , 08:34 AM

ContentNutzen

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 97

$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Kemmelberg ($81.30)
UTG+1 razor_cy ($748.00)
CO olastorm ($558.42)
BTN IamMrMojo ($420.00)
SB Hero ($892.60)
BB luxuswasser ($717.00)

Pre-flop: ($6, 6 players) Hero is SB 5

Kemmelberg calls $4, razor_cy raises to $15, olastorm calls $15, 1 fold, Hero calls $13, 1 fold, Kemmelberg calls $11

Flop: 5

($64, 4 players)
Hero bets $44, 2 folds, olastorm calls $44

Turn: 4

($152, 2 players)
Hero bets $110, olastorm goes all-in $499.42, Hero folds

Final Pot: $761.42

olastorm wins $757.92 ( won +$199.50 )
Hero lost -$169.00
razor_cy lost -$15.00
Kemmelberg lost -$15.00

villain is 26/10 pre, 0 3bet. .6 turn AF

i realize, he can hold AK there but i dont think he'd shove it for more than a stack. also i don't think he'd semi-bluff a draw on the turn. thughts on the fold?

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07-29-2008 , 08:36 AM

Tempel

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,992

i wouldnt fold this vs anyone

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07-29-2008 , 08:39 AM

_JerryD_

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,292

I think this is horrible against a 26/10 type. He can have 45, K7, 44, AK (KQ?) even AA and draw+pair easily.

You aren't like deep either, almost standard stacks.

Also [ ] bottom set, even though it's pretty irrelevant but still nit picking.

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07-29-2008 , 08:39 AM

Kreatief

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,599

tell me why, tell me his range pls.

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07-29-2008 , 09:02 AM

Nielsio

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,398

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempel

i wouldnt fold this vs anyone

What if villain would be OP?

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07-29-2008 , 09:03 AM

Tempel

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,992

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

What if villain would be OP?

would be close, good point.

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07-29-2008 , 09:03 AM

olof86

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,827

we got a set got damnit.. just push it in.. seriously, we don't have to think deeper then that.

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07-29-2008 , 09:04 AM

Kreatief

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,599

This is so dumb.
Just tell us WHY. Only saying "we have a set, ship it" is just dumb.

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07-29-2008 , 09:05 AM

Tempel

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,992

god, he can have 2 hands that beats us, like 10000 hands that we beat.

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07-29-2008 , 09:14 AM

#10

Kreatief

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,599

WTF

tell me at least 5 hands that we beat, that he will play accordingly to his stats and the stacksizes.

Do you really think he will shove AK with 0.6 AF on the turn and with more than one stack left?

Will he semibluff with 0.6 AF for more than one stack?

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07-29-2008 , 09:26 AM

#11

keithaldinho

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 343

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreatief

yeh he has 0.6 AF, but more importantly (if these stats are worth anything) he has 0%3bet. So to answer your question five possible hands are 6combos AA, 12 combos AK, 3combos bottom set, 3 combos 57s, 3 combos 45s etc.

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07-29-2008 , 09:34 AM

#12

$upermad4it

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,275

omg this is tilting

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07-29-2008 , 09:44 AM

#13

Darkfolder

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,355

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreatief

This is so dumb.
Just tell us WHY. Only saying "we have a set, ship it" is just dumb.

No, its not.

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07-29-2008 , 09:47 AM

#14

olof86

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,827

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreatief

This is so dumb.
Just tell us WHY. Only saying "we have a set, ship it" is just dumb.

My point was that it really isnt stupid, all we need is his 26/10 and 0% 3bet and we can be certain that he's showing up with hands we beat.

With that said.. It would require the nittiest of nits for me to ever consider folding here.. but then again, the nittiest of nits wouldn't be able to have a straight here, so I'd call anyway.

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07-29-2008 , 09:54 AM

#15

ChristianT

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,811

Only 2 hands beat you (KK, 77), so you should imo never fold this for 120BBs.

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07-29-2008 , 10:10 AM

#16

Kreatief

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,599

Its so funny to always read: only those two hands beat you.
But if the other hands that WE beat arent be played by him that way, it doesnt matter how few hands have us beat, but the DO beat us.

AK with his turn af and stacksizes? nowai
bottomset calling flop? nowai
57s calling pre? maybe
57s going broke with this af and stacksizes? nowai
45s going broke with this af and stacksizes and calling flop? nowai

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07-29-2008 , 10:20 AM

#17

Tempel

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,992

how about all combos of K

, or hes just on tilt and shoves draws, or overvalues hands like AK and think his tarp worked out fine, add random crap.

+, hes shouldnt be too good, so he probably wont be able to tell the difference from a good spot, and a bad spot.

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07-29-2008 , 10:31 AM

#18

flugan

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 29

Wtf, I'm calling AK here.

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07-29-2008 , 10:42 AM

#19

Eddi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,296

Before making any decisions based on the illusive turn AF, it'd be useful to find out how big the sample size actually is, if you indeed think that turn AF is going to give you that much info.

Imo, regardless this is a very bad fold. Even a very passive player plays KXcc like this, he plays AK/AA like this (because he doesn't want to "race" on the flop, but just has to charge you for your gazillion draws on the turn), etc.

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07-29-2008 , 10:53 AM

#20

JHRoman

adept

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 816

If pf-raiser´s cbet% isn´t eyesopening low, I like a c/r on the flop here.
It seems we´re folding marginal hands/draws out here that maybe would call a c-bet, but getting cold feet now.
Or?

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07-29-2008 , 10:59 AM

#21

Kreatief

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,599

I like the donkbet more than a c/r. With a c/r you mostly only get the cbet, if at all.
But with a donk, you might get 3 streets of value from hands like AK or KQ, which he might fold on a flop c/r or later on a turn bet.

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07-29-2008 , 11:06 AM

#22

didonk

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,751

wow this must be a terrible fold.. villains hand reeks of combo draw. something like Ad6d, Ad8d.... or KcXc

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07-29-2008 , 11:11 AM

#23

JHRoman

adept

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 816

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreatief

I think this applies more on a dry board. On this wet board I doubt we can get any more action from a KQ if lets say a diamond comes on turn. I basically try to get as much money in the middle from AK as soon as possible.

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07-29-2008 , 11:28 AM

#24

Imrahil

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,626

This is bad because we only lose to 86 and 77. We have 20% against 86 as well. I'd weight his range more towards 86 than 77 because of his flop call (which is a good thing because 1 out is never a good thing.)

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07-29-2008 , 11:35 AM

#25

pp262

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,135

With AK it'd be close but 55 is an easy call, plenty of Kx that think zomg draws, have to protect or combo draws that think zomg huge draw ship it in.

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