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3betting pre 3handed with AT? 3betting pre 3handed with AT?

08-24-2014 , 04:25 PM
V is unknown and otb, I like flatting here, what do you think?

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 119.5 BB
BB: 30.5 BB (VPIP: 76.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
BTN: 55 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T A

BTN raises to 2 BB, Hero calls 1.5 BB, fold

Flop: (5 BB, 2 players) K 6 2
Hero checks, BTN bets 2 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Turn: (9 BB, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, BTN bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

River: (15 BB, 2 players) T
Hero checks, BTN bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

BTN shows K K (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 71%, Flop 95%, Turn 100%)
Hero mucks T A (One Pair, Tens) (Pre 29%, Flop 5%, Turn 0%)
BTN wins 16.5 BB
And also fold otf? what do you think?
3betting pre 3handed with AT? Quote
08-25-2014 , 05:45 PM
Generally I'm not a fan of having a calling range in the SB v a BTN open. The average opponent at these stakes will not defend enough here and is folding to a ton of cbets. Also by calling we allow BB to join the pot, calling or squeezing, either is usually bad for us as we will be OOP post-flop and giving ourself a really hard time.
3betting pre 3handed with AT? Quote
08-26-2014 , 06:32 PM
Yeah right, I think we should 3bet here
3betting pre 3handed with AT? Quote
08-26-2014 , 06:33 PM
AT isn't that bad 3handed oop I'd play it
3betting pre 3handed with AT? Quote
08-26-2014 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy1932
Yeah right, I think we should 3bet here
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy1932
AT isn't that bad 3handed oop I'd play it
Are you looking for advice or trying to justify the way you played a hand?

Personally, I don't like 3 betting light against someone until I have good intel on them. After the 5 hands (hardly good intel, esp. if it's all 3 handed) you have on him, he appears very fishy. Also, min raises tend to be pretty fishy (though some good players will do that in LP).

I don't know if this is a hand the merits the analysis I'm about to give, but what the heck:
When you think about how to translate ATo in the SB facing a raise from a fish into actual money how do you think 3 betting him is going to accomplish this? If he's a fish and he's raising, there's a good chance he has something worth playing (something like JJ+/AJs+/AK). So when you raise, you're isolating yourself v his range which easily beats ATo. If he calls that's what you're up against. If he raises, you have to fold. Postflop, you have three ways to get paid:
1. Bink an A-ball and have him get stubborn with JJ-KK
2. Bink two pair (b/c if he's raising with an A, it beats yours)
3. Bink trips

(In case you didn't notice, getting paid in this spot involves a lot of hitting a statistically improbable board, aka binking) You can't bluff him since he's a fish, so taking the betting lead with a 3b is pretty much worthless. I'm undecided b/w calling and folding. Either is probably fine, but idk since I don't play much 3 handed.
3betting pre 3handed with AT? Quote
08-27-2014 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilty_McDonkawhirl
Are you looking for advice or trying to justify the way you played a hand?

Personally, I don't like 3 betting light against someone until I have good intel on them. After the 5 hands (hardly good intel, esp. if it's all 3 handed) you have on him, he appears very fishy. Also, min raises tend to be pretty fishy (though some good players will do that in LP).

I don't know if this is a hand the merits the analysis I'm about to give, but what the heck:
When you think about how to translate ATo in the SB facing a raise from a fish into actual money how do you think 3 betting him is going to accomplish this? If he's a fish and he's raising, there's a good chance he has something worth playing (something like JJ+/AJs+/AK). So when you raise, you're isolating yourself v his range which easily beats ATo. If he calls that's what you're up against. If he raises, you have to fold. Postflop, you have three ways to get paid:
1. Bink an A-ball and have him get stubborn with JJ-KK
2. Bink two pair (b/c if he's raising with an A, it beats yours)
3. Bink trips

(In case you didn't notice, getting paid in this spot involves a lot of hitting a statistically improbable board, aka binking) You can't bluff him since he's a fish, so taking the betting lead with a 3b is pretty much worthless. I'm undecided b/w calling and folding. Either is probably fine, but idk since I don't play much 3 handed.
First of all; How do you know that I acknowledged or not what breakingyournutz said. That what I said after was just my opinion after rethinking what he said. 2nd of all if you think that bluffing a fish out of the pot after it calls our 3bet is impossible, you are mentally challenged. And after getting 5 hands on someone 3 handed you are able to tell much much more about how is he playing than 6 or Fr. + AT does not have to bink stastically "improbable" flop to be good postflop.
Cheers
3betting pre 3handed with AT? Quote
08-27-2014 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy1932
2nd of all if you think that bluffing a fish out of the pot after it calls our 3bet is impossible, you are mentally challenged.
When a (non-aggro) fish raises he usually has something. He's also probably not folding when he has something. He's calling you down with his A-high hands just like he would his JJ type hands. He doesn't know any better. He doesn't know what the term 3 bet means, and he probably doesn't care either. He's going to call you down unless he has complete air, but when a passive fish raises, he doesn't have complete air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy1932
And after getting 5 hands on someone 3 handed you are able to tell much much more about how is he playing than 6 or Fr.
Um, yea, definitely. The fewer people present, the looser you have to play in order to be successful...Ppl are calling and raising a lot more 3-handed as a general rule of thumb. He'll be involved in more pots and you can see how he's playing those pots. But yea, it isn't a ton of data to go off

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy1932
+ AT does not have to bink stastically "improbable" flop to be good postflop.
Cheers
In a vacuum, sure, whatever. But when you are playing against a passive fish who just raised you pre flop, you're facing a much stronger range. So yea, I do think you have to bink if you want to win any sort of a decent pot.
3betting pre 3handed with AT? Quote

      
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