3bet Pot Bluff Line - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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3bet Pot Bluff Line

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08-24-2020 , 05:23 PM

DooDooPoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,695

Thought's on sizings?

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 0.10(BB)
BTN ($12.15) [VPIP: 20% | PFR: 15% | AGG: 42.9% | Flop Agg: 33.3% | Turn Agg: 50% | River Agg: 50% | 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 21]
HERO ($26.94) [VPIP: 24.5% | PFR: 21.4% | AGG: 35.1% | Flop Agg: 40.9% | Turn Agg: 28.4% | River Agg: 31.8% | 3-Bet: 10.8% | Fold to 3-Bet: 55.9% | 4-Bet: 16.2% | Hands: 299571]
BB ($25.03) [VPIP: 17.7% | PFR: 13.2% | AGG: 35.7% | Hands: 2630]
UTG ($11.86) [VPIP: 28.6% | PFR: 11.9% | AGG: 42.1% | Hands: 43]
HJ ($3.48) [VPIP: 29.7% | PFR: 23% | AGG: 50% | Hands: 76]
CO ($12.73) [VPIP: 19% | PFR: 15.9% | AGG: 26.7% | Hands: 400]

Dealt to Hero: J

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Raises To $0.30, HERO Raises To $1.30, BB Folds, BTN Calls $1

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.02 effective]
Flop ($2.70): A

HERO Bets $0.87 (Rem. Stack: $24.77), BTN Calls $0.87 (Rem. Stack: $9.98)

Turn ($4.44): A

HERO Bets $1.11 (Rem. Stack: $23.66), BTN Calls $1.11 (Rem. Stack: $8.87)

River ($6.66): A

HERO Bets $23.66 (allin)

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08-24-2020 , 05:53 PM

WorldzMine

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,604

I don't like this without a spade blocker.

Flop is fine sizing, but I think you could also go 2/3-3/4 on this flop. Turn's probably fine, but river he's going to have so many one-spade hands that got there (that he won't fold).

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08-24-2020 , 06:03 PM

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldzMine

But I can't just barrel the turn with spade blocker hands since I need some bluffs on 4 spade run outs.

I have way more Ks/Qs hands and higher flushes than him when he just calls OTT.

What are your bluffs on this run out?

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08-24-2020 , 06:19 PM

WorldzMine

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,604

I made a mistake about "the spade blocker" lol

I'm not sure what bluffs, if any, i'd have here. On second thought, may this is okay?

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08-24-2020 , 06:31 PM

aner0

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 3,801

I think block betting river is cool exploitatively, it also works theoretically since you will get here with some more meh flushes

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08-24-2020 , 08:06 PM

Ceres

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

But I can't just barrel the turn with spade blocker hands since I need some bluffs on 4 spade run outs.

Is this a cast-iron rule? I can't say I've noticed it anywhere but your posts. I guess we'd be exploitable with zero bluffs, is that the logic?

If so, then maybe KQ better for blocking AK and AQ

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08-24-2020 , 08:06 PM

Haizemberg93

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Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,637

Most of the times you don't want to use ob in spots where ip has nuts, beacuse what's end up happening he can just call you with nuts and make your bluffs unprofitable that way. That is especially important when there is 4 flush cards pn the board, because when you have Ks he folds close to 100% so you don't get any value.

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08-24-2020 , 08:16 PM

Crab Cakes

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 596

So I was thinking that we want to have 2 sizing on the river, I’d think jam and block bet. But how would you even decide which bluff hands to use for the different sizes? Cause I can’t come up with an answer haha

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08-24-2020 , 09:42 PM

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crab Cakes

Yeah I was thinking 2 sizing's OTR as well. A smaller sizing and jam.

I'm to solve this to see if:

1) This is a good bluff candidate (I think it is)
2) How we choose which bluff combos go into our small sizing or jam sizing

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08-24-2020 , 09:44 PM

#10

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

Is this a cast-iron rule? I can't say I've noticed it anywhere but your posts. I guess we'd be exploitable with zero bluffs, is that the logic?

If so, then maybe KQ better for blocking AK and AQ

We always need to have bluffs for sure.

As far as QJ or KQ. Well I expect AK to 4bet preflop every time so QJs makes more sense since I don't expect AK to be in Villain's range.

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08-24-2020 , 10:01 PM

#11

Renekton

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 853

Wouldn't this be a bad combo to bluff because it blocks his folding range AQ and AJ? I'm not sure what you're supposed to bluff here. Maybe 98s or K9s? I'm interested to see what the solver will do.

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08-24-2020 , 10:50 PM

#12

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

A lot of our Ks type hands check OTR here, which I thought was interesting.

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08-24-2020 , 10:53 PM

#13

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renekton

Wouldn't this be a bad combo to bluff because it blocks his folding range AQ and AJ? I'm not sure what you're supposed to bluff here. Maybe 98s or K9s? I'm interested to see what the solver will do.

wrt to solver.

It uses all sizings OTF - I have 75% sizing as the highest EV.

Turn is a high check frequency spot and if we do bet we bet small.

If we bet turn with a hand like AxKs we check OTR to XR.

It looks we do use 2 sizings OTR - this hand jams more than bets small.

Other bluff hands are KQs/KQo.

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08-24-2020 , 11:08 PM

#14

Renekton

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 853

Interesting. What are the weakest hands BTN calls vs river shove?

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08-24-2020 , 11:26 PM

#15

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renekton

Interesting. What are the weakest hands BTN calls vs river shove?

T9ss is the worst hand. We can fold that in practice though, since judging from the replies here. Population under bluffs this run out.

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08-25-2020 , 12:28 AM

#16

Renekton

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 853

Thanks. One last question. What are hands like 98s doing on all streets? I think I'm leaking with these type of hands. My default for this is to bet flop and turn.

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08-25-2020 , 09:17 PM

#17

wacker1913

self-banned

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,915

I think betting about 120% on the river has the same effect and you lose less if get called/raised.

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08-26-2020 , 12:18 PM

#18

Boomerx

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 267

I hope I'm not too late to the party.

If we go by bluff to value ratio of 1 to 2 on the river we really can't have many bluff hands here.

If we consider our value to be KK with spade, KQo with K of spades, AKo with king of spades. That's like 11 combos of hands so if you only do this with 3 combos and 2 combos of something else then its good I guess.

You could also choose non-spade KQo, as there are 6 combos and they block AK AQ bluff catching range. The question is if you want to block bluff catchers while at the same time narrowing down his value range.

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08-26-2020 , 01:49 PM

#19

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by wacker1913

I think betting about 120% on the river has the same effect and you lose less if get called/raised.

That's about what effective stacks are

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