Sorry no hand history,

Hero- $2200
Villain- $800

Blinds $15 and $30.

Hero BB w/ 55

Villain open shoves into me.

He hasn't done anything like this in the match. He's been pretty normal w/ the exception of mixing up his button raises with min, 3x and 4x.

Hero says, "wtf villain?" and folds.

But I'm thinking about this more and wondering where the line is when a villain pulls this. I

How does his stack affect us? Do we call if effective stacks are 20 BB? 15BB?

Given that this is his first weird shove I'm kind of at a loss. If villain keeps doing it we can get a better idea of their range.

Also, What PP do you start calling with? I'm thinking like 66 or 77 but I really have no idea why I'm saying that

If you like flipping, go ahead and call. You'll see 22-44 here from time to time, but also 66-88 that doesn't want to see a flop. QTo and random stuff like that is also in his range, I'm folding and waiting for something better... If he does this 2nd time, I might call since his range is bigger then.

Fwiw, in this spot, I probably call with 77+,AJo+

yeah fold it, you'll end up schooling him when he makes a mistake like this later

i mean, it's like 26BB for a flip. I think at best you're flipping here tbh

If you hold up against AK or AQ w/e he's shoving, then it's happy days. If not then you're still alive.

Just depends on what you think he is capable of open shoving with and if you think you need to take a flip to beat this guy.

I'd say that a flip is obviously best scenario you could realistically hope for here. I don't think he's shoving A3 or 22 stuff like that.

I call this all day. But I'm +EV in flips

Thanks guys, but the post wasn't so much about fold/call here. I'm cool w/ my fold and would do it again in this spot unless somebody comes in and hits me with some maths that say otherwise. I had an edge on the guy so I passed on what was probably flip
situation.

What I'm looking for is at what effective stack do you get closer to calling with 55 or similar, I think 26BB was too deep for a call, but what about 20BB? or 15BB? etc? I guess what I did was ask a general question based upon this hand.

fwiw, I think villain holds 22-88 here alot.

i probably call this shove with 66, i definitely call with 77

if i have a big edge i call a shove with 55 as high as 15 bb stacks

if i have a small/no edge i call a shove with 55 as high as 20 bb stacks

i dont really have any reason for these ranges other than just guessing what villains possible range is and plugging it into pokerstove =(

i'd like someone to hit me with some maths

Depends how often villain shoved before (or any notes about this). If it's the first time, I probably give him some credit and need 15-bb's to call here with 55. If it's third time out of 4 buttons, I'm probably calling since his range is wide and you might take the flip sooner or later (can't wait for 77+,AJo+ always in this case). If he seems tilted cause you caught him bluffing last hand or you "sucked out" or whatever, I might call first time cause his range can be ATC (very villain-dependant).

Also, am I wrong if I say that it depends what stacksizes are compared to blindsize? Here's 2 totally different scenario's:

You: 1500 chips; Villain: 1500 chips; blinds 40/80
You: 2640 chips; Villain: 360 chips: blinds 10/20

While villain has the same amount of blinds, I'm probably leaning towards a call in situation 2 where you hope to win a flip and end the match right there (+ again: his range will probably be wider there including A3o type hands etc.).

No, you're right. It depends on effective stacks counted in BBs. And I suppose that 26 BB is a little high to stack off with 55 here. I still do it though, cuz I love cracking aces.

#1. I fold unless I think I'm totally out-gunned by villain then I'll take a flip, but if I'm out-gunned by villain he's never open shoving here.

#2. I take all day. It's 18BB but if villain doubles up we still have a big chip lead.

taking -ev (or lower +ev) lines just bc we have a chip lead is pretty bad

just focus on effective stacks

Why is that bad in this situation, exactly? Isn't a 50/50 with villain better than letting him take a big blind with his shove? His overall equity in the tournament shouldn't increase on average with a 50/50 flip. If he gains that blind with his shove, though. he gains 0.6% equity. Wouldn't calling him and taking a 50/50 be better for your tournament equity on average than letting him take the BB? Of course, that assumes that you know it to be a 50/50. If you'd average being a 53/47 dog rather than a flip, then it's better to let him have the blind. Close enough that it doesn't really matter at this blind level, but a clear snap call with higher blinds.

These stack sizes aren't exactly the same, but the only way this should be changing your optimal play is if your opponent is playing differently. The effective stacks (in terms of BB) you should be what you are basing your decision on. Chip lead and "finalization" might affect how you feel about the game but aside from that shouldn't be factors in how you play.