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2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? 2NL: KK good donk, bad donk?

01-16-2012 , 03:42 PM
I bet light preflop because I wanted callers. Well, I got a caller all right--and the only scare card that could scare me. I didn't get scared and kept on donking all the way down the line. Of course, things improved greatly on the turn. But I'm wondering:

(1) Is betting light preflop because you want callers a good idea?

(2) Should I have donked on the flop?

Incidentally, this was my first orbit at this particular table and I had no stats at all on the opponent.

    Party, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11631972

    UTG+2: $1.21 (60.5 bb)
    BTN: $2.98 (149 bb)
    UTG+1: $2.66 (133 bb)
    Hero (MP2): $2.88 (144 bb)
    MP1: $3.71 (185.5 bb)
    MP3: $1.97 (98.5 bb)
    BB: $0.52 (26 bb)
    SB: $1.35 (67.5 bb)
    CO: $1.41 (70.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K K
    3 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.06, 2 folds

    Flop: ($0.15) 5 6 A (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.15, BTN calls $0.15

    Turn: ($0.45) K (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.43, BTN calls $0.43

    River: ($1.31) 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.25, BTN calls $1.25




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    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 04:06 PM
    Betting light? Didn't hear about that term before. You mean raise 3BB instead of 4+? Bad idea. It's 2NL and you will probably get callers with as much as 6-7BB raise. Just go for 4BB.

    What you do is continuation bet, not donk bet (you're the preflop raiser). Depending on villain type you can bet here for value or protection, rarely as a bluff.

    And donking with Kings on A-high flops won't be any good - don't do it.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 04:45 PM
    A "donk" is when you bet before the aggressor in the hand. What you have done is just a continuation bet, not a donk bet

    Repping the Ace isn't a bad idea on the flop. That was fine ...

    As a matter of fact this is a well played hand imo.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 04:50 PM
    Might want to look over poker terminology again.

    Depending on villain may even want to try a c/r ott, but only if he is the Aggro type.

    Cbet here is fine, c/c is bad, and c/f is worse.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 05:01 PM
    more pre imo.
    meh, oop cbetting on this board is ok (check calling often turns our hand face up but is often the best option tbh)
    if cbetting i dont like this sizing. 1/2 - 2/3 should be fine your perceived range is strong already on this board and we are not clearly betting for fat value...we are turning our hand into a thin bluff.
    turn is ok
    river meh, we are targetting Only Ax, smaller sets raise ott, 87 beat us. i would surely vbet but prolly not pot it.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 05:25 PM
    More preflop. Less on the flop. Turn and river are good.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 06:01 PM
    Thanks for correcting my terminology. I actually thought that any postflop bet oop was a donk bet, even if it's a continuation bet. Live and learn.

    You're right that this particular opponent would have called a larger raise preflop. The ideal amount would have been to bet enough preflop to get me all in on the river if I kept betting 3/4-pot to full pot. As it is, I lost a few pennies of value.

    Just as a side note, it's extremely unlikely that I would be in a position to donk bet with KK on the flop, as donk betting has been defined here. If I encountered resistance preflop I'd welcome a raise war and likely go all in preflop, since I have an 11-in-12 chance of being ahead against any other pp or starting hands combo.

    EDIT: Thinking about it, I'm really proud of how I managed to represent an A on the flop. No way he could have expected the turn to make my set.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 06:04 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackRain
    More preflop. Less on the flop. Turn and river are good.
    To be fair, as 2NL he is best off just betting his strong hands strongly.

    OP: I would advise you play your KK / AA hands like you just did at 2NL. However, if you got raised on the turn / river you should pretty much always fold unless you have a good read on the villain.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 06:06 PM
    There are some times when flatting KK pre is ok, it's rare tho.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 06:09 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackRain
    More preflop. Less on the flop. Turn and river are good.
    why less on flop?
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 07:26 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by defauit
    why less on flop?
    Dry flop.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-16-2012 , 10:42 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by krooku
    There are some times when flatting KK pre is ok, it's rare tho.
    Its awful at micros unless there is some maniac whale behind us who will raise wide and big pre.

    You don't slowplay. You get value. Flatting misses a ton unless as I said some crazy guy is left to act.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-17-2012 , 05:38 PM
    Flatting pre is just asking to get beat. Vary your pre raise size from 3x to 5x and play this hand like its best until someone slows you down. I had to learn to not flat (or relearn) pre after BF and I lost my $$ on FT but its something I would never recommend in micros, especially 2nl.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-17-2012 , 07:19 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meatpossums
    Flatting pre is just asking to get beat.
    +1

    The only question in my mind is the preflop raise size, since with a monster PP you want callers with hands you can read--not 92 offsuit fish who catch two pair on the flop, but the 55-QQ and Ax guys. Bet too much and you scare off the solid hands you can beat, bet too light and you invite all the unreadable fish to call you.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-17-2012 , 07:59 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gritgar
    +1

    The only question in my mind is the preflop raise size, since with a monster PP you want callers with hands you can read--not 92 offsuit fish who catch two pair on the flop, but the 55-QQ and Ax guys. Bet too much and you scare off the solid hands you can beat, bet too light and you invite all the unreadable fish to call you.
    You can probably get away with betting AA / KK / AK 4bbs pre-flop at 2NL. However you should just get used to making all your opening raises a standard size.

    Bet-bet-bet and fold to a raise is a good formula with AA / KK in the micros.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote
    01-17-2012 , 10:25 PM
    Played this pretty much perfectly. Once you turn the set never ever fold.
    2NL: KK good donk, bad donk? Quote

          
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