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2NL  JJ vs fish OOP 2NL  JJ vs fish OOP

03-12-2011 , 06:12 PM
UTG Fish is 59/22/0.8 over 160 hands. I was aware that he'd been raising
30% from EP (9/30)

This is a different line than I usually take with JJ here. I was trying to exercise pot control by checking the turn. On the river I put out a small blocking bet.

Thoughts or feedback on any aspect of the hand? These seem to be the spots I get myself into trouble.

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $2.97
UTG: $2.82
BTN: $2.54
SB: $2.36

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has J J

UTG raises to $0.07, BTN calls $0.07, fold, Hero raises to $0.32, UTG calls $0.25, fold

Flop: ($0.72, 2 players) 2 T 5
Hero bets $0.45, UTG calls $0.45

Turn: ($1.62, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($1.62, 2 players) K
Hero bets $0.65, fold

Hero wins $1.52
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-12-2011 , 06:45 PM
Bet bigger on flop, bet turn, c/c river? depends on what tendencies he has postflop obv, but not betting turn seems like a big mistake in my eyes
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-12-2011 , 08:35 PM
do not pot control against a fish who will not fold top pair or any draw. not betting turn and then betting the river is almost turning your hand into a bluff, although this villain may find a reason to call with Tx
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-12-2011 , 09:00 PM
Turn is the easiest double barrel in the world, especially against a fish. You're getting calls from Tx, 33-99, and maybe random overcards.

If you bet the turn, on this river K I'd probably c/c a smallish bet like 2/3 of pot or below. Probably c/f to a potsmash because the FD got there and fishy players would tend to check back their hands with showdown value ime.
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-14-2011 , 01:43 PM
Well as it was said the turn is a pretty obvious second barrel but I would like to add that you shouldn't forget you are playing 2cent NL and at those limits people with those stats will call small and big bets the same way so if you feel you are ahead overbeting or even going all in is profitable in that position because draws and some broadway cards will call often enough. (just don't forget why you are doing it and don't do it in other skates because 2NL is a world apart).
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-14-2011 , 01:53 PM
the reason you raised with this hand pf in the first place is because you know you can bet for value vs. this loose/bad opponent. this isn't the time for pot control.
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-14-2011 , 08:44 PM
With a passive fishy player like this, betting turn is pretty +ev. Epically because with a guy like this, you pretty much know where you are, if raised you are beat almost every time, but when you are merely called I'd say your hand is good so much it's ridiculous. I think a small bet on the river would be the way to go, because I think this guy is checking back anything that we beat, but calling with worse, and even though a possible flush draw came in, I think we are good here a lot of the time.
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-14-2011 , 10:05 PM
What makes you think there is more value in the river bet than there is on the turn? (Asssuming river is vbet)
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-15-2011 , 01:56 AM
Grunch:

I'd pot the flop, leaving villain a stack of $1.78, and shove the $2.16 turn, if a) Villain is calling a lot of 3-bets, b) Villain is folding less than 50% of the time to c-bets, c) I have reads on Villain indicating he will stack off with TP, or even get AI with a draw, in 3-bet pots.

Otherwise, I guess JJ is suffering the way JJ does, i.e. from reversed implied odds: we stand to win very little, or lose a lot (though there's already quite a bit of money out there to scoop up right now)... We've got to bet it, but we don't want him to fold hands we're beating and only call with his flopped set or strangely played QQ+. In general, when I bet here, I'm wanting to do so to get his stack, and I want to know if he'll call this flop and/or shove AI with enough hands we're beating to be +EV for us (edit: he's not shoving AI with any hands we're beating, given he passive post-flop stats). If I'm going for pot control, I'll probably check this flop -- if you're giving him a free card, what difference does it make if it's to get to the turn or the river? I think, actually, if you're going for pot control, it's better to check the flop, and cr if he bets, because giving him a free card when the pot has already swollen near to the point where we're pot committed ott seems very -EV to me.

My question is this: if he'd call $0.45 on that flop with TP, wouldn't he also call $0.72? And if he flatted your 3-bet pre with a T in his hand, is he ever folding this flop? Suppose he calls a full psb on the flop, will he ever fold the turn? Taking those things into consideration, I'm probably just going for Villain's stack here, and at the end of the day, we'll very rarely find flops as favorable for JJ.

Last edited by PromethEV+s; 03-15-2011 at 02:05 AM.
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-15-2011 , 03:49 AM
you need a lot of work, bet bigger on flop, smash the turn, shove the river
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote
03-15-2011 , 06:48 AM
Just barrel (i.e., bet every round and hope they call) fish every time you have an overpair or top pair/facecard kicker (within reason, like Jacks or better). Obviously be careful on flush flops (or on 2-flush flops that become 3-flushes) since fish like to chase flushes, and with straighy boards (fish often play Ax and will chase inside straights, so bicycle straights are pretty easy to read). They'll call you with top pair/**** kicker, and will often call you with any pocket pair or any pair whatsoever. If he raises you though he probably has something better than one pair.
2NL  JJ vs fish OOP Quote

      
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