Hi all.

Just a quick check up here on whether I made the right play in this spot OTF? I think as a short stack fish shoving on the flop villain's got a lot of weak one pair hands, draws that are behind, and some of their air (esp. give SPR of approx 1, giving him an instant double if he's successful with his bluff) - how do people feel about that assessment, or should we be folding this / is villain's range much narrower that I'm imagining?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 137 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BB: 42 BB (VPIP: 68.00, PFR: 36.00, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 26)
UTG: 116.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 12)
CO: 36 BB (VPIP: 39.02, PFR: 19.51, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 43)
Hero (BTN): 259 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8 8

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB raises to 9 BB, Hero calls 6 BB, SB calls 6 BB

Flop: (27 BB, 3 players) 7 4 5
SB checks, BB bets 33 BB and is all-in, Hero raises to 125 BB, fold

Turn: (93 BB, 2 players) 2

River: (93 BB, 2 players) 9

you can click it back pre to price sb out

obv we're not folding such a strong hand postflop

Okay noted on the PF action.

What is his shoving range OTF there do you think, roughly?

no idea

So you just think it's so wide that we shouldn't worry and get it all in because we're ahead most of the time?

Sorry, I'm not being arsey - it just doesn't help much when I get a response without a super clear rationale - I might then know the play that should have been made in that particular spot, but not necessarily the rationale.

You don't know what villain is doing. He could be bluffing too much or not enough.

If you focuss on playing a good strategy, you'll beat villain no matter what he does. He bluffs too much? His bluffs are not showing profit (you call at the correct frequency) and he's feeding your value range.

Villain doesn't bluff enough? Sure you'll make -ev calls but there's only a limited amount of strong hands villain can have which means if he's weak (most of the time) you'll have the opportunity to get to showdown and win.

If you're suffering from weak-tight syndrome like most beginners (which you are) and you choose to play a bad strategy (fold too much) to counter those whom don't bluff enough then sure you'll beat these weak-tight players the times they have a value hand (not often) but you'll get run over by those who bluff too much and unlike value hands, bluffs are plentitful so it will happen very often.

How do you approach these spots? Well you don't ask yourself if you're ahead most of the time which you don't need to be to begin with because of pot odds, in your case you need a little bit more than 33% to call profitably which means you can afford to lose most of the time when you call!! Don't feel bad when you call and lose, you're supposed to. It's just the nature of the game.

What you do is figure out how often you need to call to prevent villain from showing a profit with his bluffs (around 50% in this case) and you call with the top 50% of your range (keep in mind 88 is stronger than 99 and TT here because of the gutshot).

If you suspect villain not to bluff enough then you can fold a little more than 50%, maybe 55-60% but you shouldn't go overbroad because it opens a door you don't want to open. If you're wrong about your assumption it's a total disaster.

This is really great man

Guy seems like a maniac, and he's sitting on a 40BB stack. I just 4B/call pre (fold to SB). If we're wrong, doesn't cost us much. Much easier than flatting & playing the call down game on scary boards in a big pot w/ what's likely to flop a mid-pair.

It might be easier but I don't think its more profitable than calling. I think its ok with TT. he would have to ship or call lower PPs frequently for 4betting to be better than calling. And we still have to worrie about SB. If villian is a maniac, he will continue making mistakes post. and if we 4bet and get called, we still play on "scary boards in a big pot w/ what's likely to flop a mid-pair".

Thanks matey - that helps a lot. I guess I'll get working on it!