V is 15/13 with 6.8% 3bet (only 6.5 from Button) over 1.7K hands. Agg is 5.0, 55% flop cbet, 57% T cbet, 50%(4) river cbet. 28% WTSD, 54%W$SD.

4 bet pre.


As played river is a fold.

4bet pre.

Why? vs 6.5% 3bet AK is not that far ahead and if you 4 bet it pushes out all his weaker hands leaving you playing against the top of his range?

And if you call you miss 65% of the flops and x/f. And if you hit it won't be that great either, because it's really tough to get a lot of money in when ahead.


By 4betting you have some fold equity. Also 6,5% is reasonably wide, KK+ only make up 0,9% of hands. With you blocking both of them, I'd guess he has KK+ ~0,5% of the time, so it make up ~7% of his 3betting range.

I doubt flatting is much worse than 4betting, and I personally prefer a flat here vs a lot of players. As played I am never folding the top of my range here. We also don't block any FD and we're only beat by the 1 combo of KK and the 6 of AA, as he likely doesn't 3bet any PPs.

Anyone prefering turning this hand into a 4b/bluff if his fold to 4b is high ? I know a lot of regs would only go broke with KK+ from these positions. Esp if you`re not that laggy yourself.

On wich flops do you continue, if you flat pre?

I don't think there are many flops I'd actually c/f. Like the flop has to be something like JT9ddd for me to c/f. All 4betting achieves is that you fold out the hands we dominate and more often than not we're going to be flipping for 125ish BBs.

you get in a lot of tough spots if you flat, and if you start floating the flop it gets even tougher.

If you are good enough to turn this into a +EV good for you, imo 4betting has higher EV.

I see a lot of people saying they would almost never call AK vs 3bets OOP and I think thats reasonable. You will just have such a hard time making the right decisions postflop.



I started flatting AKs more often, and just 4bet or fold AKo.

4b/call or 4b/fold from non steal spots ?

I am not sure how to quantify the money we make from all his postflop bluffs when we hit an A or a K, so I can't say whether EV of flatting is higher than EV of 4betting, but 4betting is just you being lazy. He folds out his bluffs and we're ''never'' doing better than a flip vs him jamming range.

I also don't agree that floating a lot of flops makes it ''tougher'' to play. He's going to miss just as many flops with his bluff and at the same time it's not like he's just going to 3barrel off all the time. I mean I flat JJ+ here a good % of the time too, so it's not like MY range only includes setmines and broadways.

Anyways, I think the hand is played fine if we call the river.

We're probably choping at best on the river. You probably agree that villan is almost never bluffing here.


I think floating OOP in a 3bet pot with naked AK high will bring you in tough spots. Can't really imagine a lot of plays that get you in tougher spots.

It's pretty much impossible to determine the EV of both decisions, but I think if you go through your database you can see what works out better for you.


You also have to consider that you're equity isn't that great vs his 3betting range, yes it's better then the equity you have after you 4bet, but you also win money everytime he folds.



And no thats not me beeing lazy, thats me thinking about how to make money postflop. And in my experience it's just really tough to make money calling 3bets OOP with AKo. In my database I'm losing in this spot btw.

Not necessarily. With a 6.5% btn 3bet he's going to have a bunch of hands that he could potentially bluff. Also given our perceived range it wouldn't be too shocking if he was trying to put maximum pressure on Kx because as you see in this thread, most here 4bet AK pre so we've got KQs/KJs in our range and we likely raise sets somewhere. I think he has bluffs in his range, but regardless river is a call.

Fair enough. I personally agree and disagree, it's tough, but at the same time it's not. It's not like every villain is going to mindlessly barrel away every time we float oop. On flops we hit we can play pretty straightforward by check calling down(this hand for example), and flops we float we'll probably see a lot of turns or rivers get checked through, realizing our equity and winning a % of the time vs his total give ups.


That's usually how I support my answers. By making sure I am either winning or doing better than for example folding in a certain spot. Sometimes it's also supported by theory but yes in this spot I am making money(granted sample size) and I also think we should be able to profit here.

Yes, but you also win money vs his dominated Ax and Kx on Axx Kxx boards and you also win money vs his bluffs.

I think always 4betting AK here is being lazy because you're trying to avoid a play that could yield higher EV but is tougher to play. At the same time if you're going to be 4bet calling here you're not going to make money, where as with a flat, I am near enough certain it's profitable. I mean it is for me, and I also have an idea it should be, but my sample size is small and my idea isn't exactly proof.

It's really rare that people 3barrel bluff and even less likely in a 3bet pot (where we play for stacks). Sure there are a decent amount of hands he could bluff with, question is if he really goes for 3barrels that often.



Would you mind telling on wich site and wich stakes you play Mzbourg? I never saw a hand that you posted, Im a little but curious .

I also feel the same thing about this limit. Its rare people have the balls to bluff their entire stack in 3b pots. Esp when you`re range is kinda face up of being AK/KQs.

Haha I play on Stars lol? I have posted hands before, just click my name. I just don't post hands anymore. Not be a dick or anything, but I think an awful lot of the advice given lately on the forums is absolutely dreadful.

Not saying the **** I say is good, but there's maybe 5 or 6 posters who's advice I'd genuinely value, the rest is just really meh.

over pairs and TPTK type hands are going to play better in smaller SPR pots. I don't know why in the world with out stats on this guy that your not 4 betting and getting it in asap. You in this example kinda turned AK from a value TPTK type hand to a bluff catcher.

I feel the same thing, but those who i respect normally respond to my posts, so i still think there is a lot of value posting here.

Still helps to discuss, and even bad advise can help us.

It gives us the chance to reevalute our standart lines and helps us seeing some stuff from a new perspective.

Also teaching others is the best way to learn :P.

And what stakes do you play?

I participate in a lot of threads for these reasons.

grunch

are people really 3betting wide in this spot?, i generally fold n move on tbh.

If we do continue i think only thing we can do is call

Our range here is prob: kk-22,. Ak, aq. Ak is at the top of our range on this flop with draws bricking but yet we still hate life hence why i normally fold pre.

As played we have to call though imo, top of our range, draws bricked & if we fold here were folding everything sooo you kinda have to justify your call pre with a call otr(could be wrong but tis how i think about hands).


p.s bourg dont want me to say too much about him, but at the end of the day hes the best player who still post in the micro section, their use to be better players but they dont post here anymore, so i say his advice is generally solid.

I do not like being 3bet in general. I find that by 4betting, it can slow my opponents down because they know I will play back at them. That to me is worth whatever difference there may be in the value of calling over 4betting.

4 bet pre as played donk flop x/j turn