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[25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective

04-08-2012 , 07:42 PM
Villian is a standard reg. 20/17, not too aggro but not too passive either (3.6 AF, 2.7 OTT) though 200 hands. Ft3B: 50% (6 samples)

I make my 3B a little larger than usual as were a little deeper.

Flop CB is standard and im looking to B-B-Jam on safe run outs. I plan to check back nasty boards OTR if things go up sh*t creek.

Turn im faced with a tough spot. I can Bet, commit myself and call a jam. Bet/fold but I dont exactly love that, or check back.

I still think, OTT, we have tones of value from TT, 99, 8x, flush draws he played passivly and Jx (and in particular, TP + Draws).

When he jams, its a little strange. He reps a set and set only. Tbh, I expect him to fold 44/55 alot pre, and would most likely raise the flop with a flopped set - so he reps JJ pretty much exclusivly... 3 combos of that = unlikely given that I feel his range here isnt as narrow as it seems (I know turn raises are often the nuts, but he could be spazzing with a lot worse than just JJ. For example: Jx, QQ (more combos of QQ than JJ. P.S. I dont expect AA ever. This deep, OOP he 4B 100%) flush draws and especially with the Jack. MAYBE some semi bluffs like 2 overs since my turn bet looks like a thin value bet.

Thoughts on the turn? Bet bigger and commit myself or is this a fine sizing since it allows me to happily jam safe rivers if he ch/c again.

Thoughts on calling it off when jammed upon?

    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12492562

    BTN: $38.22 (152.9 bb)
    SB: $29.79 (119.2 bb)
    BB: $32.07 (128.3 bb)
    UTG: $36.73 (146.9 bb)
    MP: $80.59 (322.4 bb)
    Hero (CO): $36.39 (145.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with K K
    UTG raises to $1, MP folds, Hero raises to $3.50, 3 folds, UTG calls $2.50

    Flop: ($7.35) 4 8 5 (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $5.50, UTG calls $5.50

    Turn: ($18.35) J (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $9, UTG raises to $27.73, Hero ???

    Spoiler:

    River: ($73.13) 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Results: $73.13 pot ($2 rake)
    Final Board: 4 8 5 J 3
    UTG showed J J and won $71.13 ($34.74 net)
    Hero showed K K and lost (-$36.39 net)



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    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 12:09 AM
    No one fancies showing some love to this thread? *Bump*
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 01:56 AM
    I've given up on saying "he's only repping 3 combos" and calling.
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 04:09 AM
    I don't think people are folding any PP when they are deeper, so I would say that all PP are in his range. Also, if he has FD and he decided to go for c/r he would do it on flop, not turn.
    Also, he might some time slowplay set, I'm not saying that this is a way to play, I'm saying how people are playing on nl25.

    I thin turn is b/f. Also, don't include resaults, you will never get good responses
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 04:16 AM
    can I ask the name of the villain here?
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 06:34 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by happyeaster
    can I ask the name of the villain here?
    Spoiler:
    ninjazeus
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 06:40 AM
    oh, i would've bet that the villain was me!

    Anyway I think turn is a fold simply for the reason that we beat a bluff and that's it.

    These spots always suck indeed
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 06:42 AM
    just looked him up in my database - according to my hud ninjazeus is a 14/9 over 100 hands. Smaller sample but seems a far cry from 20/17.

    Weird stuff.
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 08:55 AM
    What's your image?
    Turn sizing, I guess you can 1/2, if you don't expect to raised by worse very often, but that sizing is going to get messed with a lot more than 2/3,3/4, for that reason I'm calling if V's fps AA+ good luck to them, that's an easy way to lose a ton of EV playing zoom.
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 08:58 AM
    i would call this off i think
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 05:21 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by happyeaster
    oh, i would've bet that the villain was me!

    Anyway I think turn is a fold simply for the reason that we beat a bluff and that's it.

    These spots always suck indeed
    I still think, given this is 25NL, we beat more than just bluffs.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by happyeaster
    just looked him up in my database - according to my hud ninjazeus is a 14/9 over 100 hands. Smaller sample but seems a far cry from 20/17.

    Weird stuff.
    Maybe its because all my hands on him are from Zoom and he may have decided to actually open some hands?

    If he is infact a nit, this becomes a bit of a closer fold.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bollo
    What's your image?
    Turn sizing, I guess you can 1/2, if you don't expect to raised by worse very often, but that sizing is going to get messed with a lot more than 2/3,3/4, for that reason I'm calling if V's fps AA+ good luck to them, that's an easy way to lose a ton of EV playing zoom.
    Short term image & history - doubt he takes in to concideration due to the fact this is Zoom.

    He would see me as a Tag with a wide 3B stat with tones of squeezing. Likes to barrel.

    Tbh, I dont think villian will be able to fold QQ here...Nor any Jx that he has

    Last edited by GutshotDan92; 04-09-2012 at 05:29 PM.
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote
    04-09-2012 , 06:34 PM
    All my hands for him are also from zoom. Since that''s the only thing I play these days.

    Nope, he wouldn't fold QQ here but he's not likely to raise in this spot either.
    [25NL Zoom] KK, facing turn shove - 150bb Effective Quote

          
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