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25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? 25NL - tough decisions, correct plays?

08-01-2008 , 01:45 PM
In the middle of a big downswing and had to make a few tough laydowns this session but also stacked off in a few other spots where I wasn't sure where I stood.

No real data on villain on this hand. My thought process was that the SB's 3bet on the turn was him defending a straight and that the call by the CO was him drawing to the nut flush, so I shoved. I considered that he already had a made flush but if either of them was just drawing I wanted them out of the hand now.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($39.85)
CO ($15.60)
Hero ($23.65)
SB ($24.15)
BB ($12.55)
UTG ($3.95)
UTG+1 ($23.25)
MP1 ($36.90)
MP2 ($25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, Q.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 3, 2, 4 (4 players)
SB bets $0.25, BB folds, MP1 calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25.

Turn: ($1.75) 5 (3 players)
SB bets $0.75, MP1 calls $0.75, Hero raises to $2.5, SB raises to $4.25, MP1 calls $3.50, Hero raises to $23.15, SB raises to $23.65, MP1 folds.

River: ($52.80) Q (2 players)

Final Pot: $52.30

Results in white below:
SB has Ac 2c (straight flush, five high).
Hero has 9c Qc (flush, queen high).
Outcome: SB wins $52.30.



#2 Easy fold? These are the kinds of hands I have the most difficulty playing. My initial thought most of the time is that he's raising me drawing to the flush on the river, but then I end up paying off a monster.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($30.35)
Hero ($43.35)
MP2 ($19.85)
CO ($14.30)
Button ($12.25)
SB ($22.50)
BB ($5.15)
UTG ($28.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, A.
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: ($2.75) 3, Q, K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.25, SB calls $1.25.

Turn: ($5.25) 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.25, SB raises to $6, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $9.75

Results in white below:
No showdown. SB wins $9.75.


#3

Here I made a weak flop bet trying to induce a raise where I could come over the top, and also with rainbow and no connectors I didn't mind players sticking around. When I called the turn, I had absolutely no idea where I stood, and was simply going to pay off a small bet on the river.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($13.50)
SB ($33.75)
BB ($15)
UTG ($12.10)
UTG+1 ($9.65)
Hero ($38.35)
MP2 ($28.05)
MP3 ($59.40)
CO ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, A.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 4 folds, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.25) 6, 2, K (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1, SB calls $1, UTG calls $1.

Turn: ($6.25) 9 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $4, SB raises to $8, UTG folds, Hero calls $4.

River: ($22.25) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $12, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $22.25

Results in white below:
SB doesn't show.
Outcome: SB wins $22.25.
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-01-2008 , 01:57 PM
Hand 1 is really tough imo. SB's line screams strength and MP1 doesn't care (though he could be here with anything as he seems super passive). I probably get it in, because I figure MP1 will come in with worse than our flush, but looking at it here, I think it's marginal. At the table, I'd prolly raise to $3.50 on the turn to price out AcXx/KcXx club hands that might stick around after you make this very small raise.

Hand 2, you need to raise more preflop and bet more on the flop. I like $1.50 preflop and $2.25 on the flop. I suppose we can b/f this turn, but I don't see what value we're getting and these small bets are going to get raised a lot because they look weak. If you're going to bet, bet $4.50. I still think check/folding is the better (and low variance option).
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-01-2008 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapidEvolution
Hand 1 is really tough imo. SB's line screams strength and MP1 doesn't care (though he could be here with anything as he seems super passive). I probably get it in, because I figure MP1 will come in with worse than our flush, but looking at it here, I think it's marginal. At the table, I'd prolly raise to $3.50 on the turn to price out AcXx/KcXx club hands that might stick around after you make this very small raise.

Hand 2, you need to raise more preflop and bet more on the flop. I like $1.50 preflop and $2.25 on the flop. I suppose we can b/f this turn, but I don't see what value we're getting and these small bets are going to get raised a lot because they look weak. If you're going to bet, bet $4.50. I still think check/folding is the better (and low variance option).
Yea that first hand gave me a lot of trouble. $1.50 sounds good preflop. Is c/f the way to go on the turn just because of the 3rd heart?
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-01-2008 , 02:10 PM
Hand 1: SB's min-bet on the flop is really weird. He should assume he has at least 14 outs (plus, potentially, the gutshot outs if nobody has a 6). There are so many cooler cards that can come, killing his action. And with so many opponents, he can base his play on the assumption that someone will stick around. His $0.25 donk accomplishes nothing.

Of course, I'm analyzing SB's play more than our hero's. But it really irritates me
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-01-2008 , 02:16 PM
I just think that c/f'ing is better than making this small bet. There aren't a lot of hands he's going to pay us off with now that the heart draw has come in, and generally speaking, I'm b/fing this turn. We want to make donkeys pay to play their drawing hands (both pre and postflop) or keep the pot small so we don't invest too much before they hit. Choice 1 is better by a mile, but we need to be betting larger in order to maximize value and force errors on the parts of our fishy friends.
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-01-2008 , 08:43 PM
hand 1 is a cooler imo

to be honest i c/c hand 2 on the turn. I agree with rapid in that we arent really getting value on many of the hands that we beat, but we will be getting value out of marginal hands that would call the flop and take the heart as an opportunity to bluff.

hand 3 bet more on flop, dont try and get tricky by trying to induce raises and what not, if someone wants to get their money in, a small raise prolly wont make much of a difference. Why not call the river if thats what you were planning on doing? He bets 1/2 pot... you said you were planning to call a smallish bet on the river, what were you expecting? youre getting 3:1 odds, and to be honest ive seen 25nl donks show up with all kinds of garbage here
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-01-2008 , 08:44 PM
Hand 1: Raise PF if MP1s VPIP is not abnormally low. As played, I'd get it in. MP1 played this hand very much like Acx, KcX or 55 so there are less likely flushes from SB that beat you, and you'll still get value from all flushes by raising.

Hand 2: Raise more PF as said above. As played, simple fold on the turn.

Hand 3: Raise more PF and bet more on the flop. This time, underbetting has made this hand much more difficult to play. For example, if you had raised to 1.25 Pf and got the same action, the pot is now $4. Then if you bet $2.5 on the flop and get the same action (it won't necessarily happen this way but the point I will eventually make will be the same regardless) the pot will then be $11. You said you underbet the pot on the flop to induce a raise and then 3 bet, but instead you ended up playing a pot too small on the turn relative to the strength of your hand. Your hand can't really stand a raise (as proven by your river fold) so it is a 2 street of value hand. By betting too little PF and on the flop, you have created a situation where you need to bet the turn to gain the value u lost PF and on the flop, when checking would have been a better play. By checking the turn in position, you can induce bluffs and get value on the river from hands you otherwise wouldn't have.

As played, fold the river. You can only beat bluffs and horribly played AK.
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-02-2008 , 03:00 AM
I think hand 1 is pretty tough... but I think you could have avoided stacking off. You said you believed villains 3 bet was defending a straight. What was he defending it from? The flush draw had already gotten there (and you represented it and he didn't care!!) I am not saying you should fold here (especially because you have the other guy who seems to just be helping bloat the pot) but the SB didn't get slowed down by the flush you represented. I think it's best to take passive lines in these situations unless I know for a fact villain would aggressively stack off a straight to a fairly transparent flush.
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote
08-02-2008 , 03:30 AM
Your preflop play is getting you in trouble and needs some work. Make your isolation raises bigger and widen your range OTB.
25NL - tough decisions, correct plays? Quote

      
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