SB has aggr stats. I tend not to get paid off on my big hands and have been trying to bet more aggressively. AA was obviously in his range. I didn't shove pre b/c I would only get called by AA. When he checked flop, I pot committed myself with my bet, but I didn't see folding KK unless an A hit on flop.

Should I have checked back on Flop for pot control? Could I have folded?

Full Tilt - $0.25 NL RUSH - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

dreamer-1464 (SB): $29.83
KJRosen (BB): $25.27
boone_jc (UTG): $26.10
dontblameftp (UTG+1): $25.45
lliriku (MP): $35.38
Thee Masterr (MP+1): $26.66
Erudas (LP): $33.50
slade1AA (CO): $14.85
Dentagard (BTN): $25.00

dreamer-1464 posts SB $0.10, KJRosen posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) KJRosen has Kh Kc

boone_jc raises to $0.75, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, dreamer-1464 raises to $1.25, KJRosen raises to $4.50, fold, dreamer-1464 raises to $7.75, KJRosen calls $3.25

Flop: ($16.25, 2 players) Jc 3s 3c
dreamer-1464 checks, KJRosen bets $8.00, dreamer-1464 raises to $22.08 and is all-in, KJRosen calls $9.52 and is all-in


Turn: ($51.29, 2 players) 7d

River: ($51.29, 2 players) Js

dreamer-1464 shows Ad Ac (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks) (PreFlop 82%, Flop 92%, Turn 95%)
KJRosen shows Kh Kc (Two Pair, Kings and Jacks) (PreFlop 18%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
dreamer-1464 wins $48.73

Just get it in pre.

+1

As much as I hate to do it facing a cold 5bet from SB, you have to get it in.

what means aggro stats?

because there are a ton of players that only min3bet like 3 hands at most oop.

ya in rush full ring he is usually showing up there with AA almost always, once he 5bets you i dont see the purpose in calling because on any flop with out an A you guys will probably get it in anyways so you might as well get it in pre and hope its QQ or AK, which it rarely is in fr rush.

Also i think that you should 4 bet a smaller amount here. If you are in the bb after a utg raise and a sb 3 bet if you 4 bet that big then your range is basically kk+, so qq can get away from it oop alot, and ak oop is folding. you are only getting raised by better almost all the time, and arent getting called by less enough of the time imo for it to be profitable to 4 bet that big.

i think if you 4 bet here smaller it iso's you with the sb so the utg cant call or raise unless he has AA,KK and if the utg raiser raises, depending on what the sb does you can fold, and 4 betting smaller could make it so you might be able to find a fold on the flop because you wont be pot committed.

as played, on the flop i am checking, because after all that preflop raising when he checks he is often going to be check raising most of the flops so why pot commit yourself if he shoves? also when you check you have the chance that some scare cards might come discouraging him from getting it all in at that point, saving you some money if you cant find a fold. You have equity but most likely behind so use your position for some pot control.

yes against the right people

I made my 4bet large because there was another player, the original raiser. Does that change your thinking on the bet sizing?

this is not a hand worth focusing on.

I have two follow-up questions about the min 3-bet comment:

1. I am not sure how to interpret a min 3bet in general. I put him on TT+, AQs+. Do you think it always means a big hand? I would be worried doing a small 3bet with AA, KK, QQ because it might encourage the BB and original raiser to call with a wider range and generate a 3 way pot.

2. If I had a middle pair in the BB I would probably call the 3bet thinking I was getting the right odds to set mine? If I were the original raiser I would call a min raise 3bet IP with almost my entire range, certainly with any pair and suited connectors. Do you think that would be too loose?

1.) I tend to treat min 3-bets as very strong until I have a player note telling me otherwise. Min 3-betting yourself is never a good idea given full stacks.

2.) Both statements are correct imo. If you're getting better than 20-1 implied odds on a call (call vs effective stack sizes) you can profitably set-mine. You can also call min 3-bets as the open raiser pretty thin assuming you don't stack off light post flop.

i 4bet to 3.50 pre and fold to a 5bet. i played alot of min raising ive never seen anyone min 3bet/ min5 bet w/ out AA i dont care what his stats say. even aggro players arnt going to be min5 betting light OOP vs a cold BB 4bet!!!!

Yeah, PLZ don't do this with KK.

BvB, I would need about 400bb's for this not to be a preflop stack off. Consider it a cooler, move on. **** happens.

its not really BvB when the SB 3-bets an UTG raiser, but your main point is prob ok.

VERY WELL SAID!

level?

lol nice troll

no not at all because he is utg raiser he is rarely opening speculative hands that have much implied odds besides pp's, so giving utg raiser odds wont matter much, and he wont cold call much even if he thought he was getting good odds on a pp or something because sb might 5 bet. After a 3 bet, then a cold 4 bet from the blinds, all on a utg raiser hes folding regardless of bet size.

if the latest craze is 4betting and then folding KK to a min 5bet then I'll be 5betting every single hand I'm 3betting with.

You guys are burning money on your bankroll's funeral pyre.

+1.
Against a full stacked player who min 3 and 5bets why would a standard shipitlolcooler line be optimal?

4 bet folding 18bb's w' KK is obv bad but why is 4 bet shipping 100bb's against an obv (or vv likely in this spot) pair of aces better? The min 3bet might be JJ,QQ,AQ or AK but the 5bet isnt.

Vs a UTG open and a SB 3bet I flat pre and see a flop in position against the 3 better and go from there.