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25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck 25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck

09-07-2011 , 08:20 AM
Villain is 27/23/3b 1 of 8/agg freq 60 over 22 hands.

If, then what would you do differently ?





Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1434802
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG: $29.86
MP: $29.68
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $25.25
SB: $25.00
BB: $10.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with K A
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN raises to $2.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $6, BTN calls $3.50

Flop: ($12.35) 8 T 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.87, Hero folds
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 08:49 AM
I would rather crai flop,cause if he is bad enough to flat 4b he def has some air which b/f,you even might get AK to fold.

but it is high varience/spew play ofc
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 09:28 AM
I would have flatted his raise pre and then cr the flop if i hit my pair, otherwise folding. I think 22 hands is a bit premature to classify villain. The line you took isn't horrible, but after 4-betting pre you put yourself in essentially the same situation as my line... you're either hitting a pair and going all in or missing and folding. However, you lost more than twice the amount. Your only chance of saving this hand as is was crai like like burpst said, but unfortunately your fold equity isn't as big as you'd like.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 10:23 AM
Nothing wrong with folding pre.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scherzox
I would have flatted his raise pre and then cr the flop if i hit my pair, otherwise folding. I think 22 hands is a bit premature to classify villain. The line you took isn't horrible, but after 4-betting pre you put yourself in essentially the same situation as my line... you're either hitting a pair and going all in or missing and folding. However, you lost more than twice the amount. Your only chance of saving this hand as is was crai like like burpst said, but unfortunately your fold equity isn't as big as you'd like.
Flatting OOP with ak is baaad, and you dont have the data to suggest you can 4bet him pre.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontjudgeimnew
Flatting OOP with ak is baaad, and you dont have the data to suggest you can 4bet him pre.
Right now at 5NL, I'm happy to flat AK against a 3bet pre because if I hit then I can often bet multiple streets for value. Perhaps when I move up to 25NL I'll have to reconsider this.

Is the reasoning that if you hit, any decent player holding second pair won't pay you off? And on the other hand you might hit and wish you didn't because you're crushed by a stronger hand and find yourself putting the chips in bad?
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontjudgeimnew
Nothing wrong with folding pre.
Why ?
Then theres nothing wrong with folding QQ and worse pre aswell ?
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 11:00 AM
everyone thats posted ITT has gave awful advice

pre is well played and after the flop without knowing what he's flatting 4bets with i just c/f
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 11:08 AM
Fold flop, imo best case senario he has AK and he does not want to get blown off of it. If you raise flop it is very rare that you will get him to fold a pair. I would like a slightly larger 3bet though, maybe 6.5
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 11:23 AM
This is nuts.
You know what I do whan that happens 2 me?
I open shove any board that comes. 100 bbs no decent player will ever flat a 4 bet i got 6 outs and i need to win 2/3 of time. SHOVE!!!
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virukunn
Why ?
Then theres nothing wrong with folding QQ and worse pre aswell ?
I got no problem folding QQ oop with no reads.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusEatsCheese
everyone thats posted ITT has gave awful advice

pre is well played and after the flop without knowing what he's flatting 4bets with i just c/f
4betting AK without knowing their continuance range is overplaying it. Simple as.

Just ****ing fold pre you dont know how wide he 3bets 2 times in your whole sample could easily be premiums.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 12:39 PM
folding CO with AK to a BTN 3 bet is huge leak.
We are not i 20 century no more.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IjustCan
folding CO with AK to a BTN 3 bet is huge leak.
We are not i 20 century no more.
Nope. You cant just look at the hand and know what to do in poker and not taking a flip cant be a huge leak.
There certainly are spots where you could fold to a btn 3bet. Imo many people overvalue/overplay AK pre. There is a coach named Nikachu in CR and he explained these situations very nicely. Why choose 45/55 or 50/50 situations if you can easily choose 60/40 situations, especially in these light btn vs blinds, BvB spots.

I agree that folding to the 3bet wouldnt have been bad. We got no info on him and we would have kept the variance low.
Actually now I think that since my 4bets are seldom going to get called, I can play pretty straight forward in these spots. Going broke too light might hugely decend my 4b/called = true winrate.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 02:48 PM
cbet flop

1. you have a **** ton of value hands on this board so it's unlikely that villain will try and bluff raise

2. Sure there's a good chance he's calling with TT-QQ, but there's also a good chance his calling range is on the loose side in which case he's snap folding a crap ton of broadway hands.

3. Small pocket pairs might just snap fold this flop b/c they didn't hit their set and don't feel like losing a big pot.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontjudgeimnew
I got no problem folding QQ oop with no reads.
you may as well start lighting money on fire.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-07-2011 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontjudgeimnew
4betting AK without knowing their continuance range is overplaying it. Simple as.

Just ****ing fold pre you dont know how wide he 3bets 2 times in your whole sample could easily be premiums.
you realize AKs is a premium. Your name ATM suits you
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-08-2011 , 04:42 AM
Don't even consider a fold pre. If you don't know how to play postflop, you can also consider a 4bet shove oop, which is also Ev+ against a btn 3bet from an unknown player.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-08-2011 , 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IjustCan
i got 6 outs and i need to win 2/3 of time. SHOVE!!!
that sounds easy enough
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-08-2011 , 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontjudgeimnew
Nothing wrong with folding pre.

I got no problem folding QQ oop with no reads.
Fold pre, what the hell?! I'm 4b/calling AKs against a reg CO vs BTN. So you're basically saying your only continuing to a button 3-bet with AA/KK. Do you have any clue how exploitable that is?

I like this 4-bet, but once he calls I'm putting him on something like AQ, 1010+. No real sense in trying to bluff him off an over pair so I think a c/f is fine.
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-08-2011 , 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusEatsCheese
everyone thats posted ITT has gave awful advice

pre is well played and after the flop without knowing what he's flatting 4bets with i just c/f
+1
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-08-2011 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaycareInferno
that sounds easy enough
What would you do here?
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote
09-08-2011 , 10:27 AM
Bet the flop
25NL: My 4bet gets called again - linecheck Quote

      
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