Villain (CO) was 30/28/inf over 40 hands. he had been making my life miserable. all kind of turn c/r's and turn over shoves. he was CONSTANTLY "putting me to a decision". i couldnt tell if he was crafty and thinking and just pwning me, or if he was just catching hands whenever i was making a move and it seemed like he could mind read. i was staying a the table, to catch a hand v him and scoop a monster pot. i also knew this might mean shipping with some like TPTK. i was pretty sure he WAS getting out of line.

SB was 12/12/inf but something about him seemed more tag than nit. i was pretty sure his PF move was a resteal, since CO was stealing A LOT, raising every CO and BTN.

this leaves me in a weird situation. the aggro-monkey im looking to stack, and the stat-nit, who i think is really tag, with KK OOP against the monkey.

I think i have to 4 bet, take the lead, grow the pot, re-re-iso the monkey, and to see if i can end the hand instead of playing it OOP.

I wish CO had just shoved and i would have snap called. his flat call leaves me without any idea of what his 4-bet calling range is. i think his shoving is wider against me, but a call is weird.

i would NEVER think about folding in a 4bet pot, with an over pair on a 9-high flop. i mean TT-QQ and AJ-AK i think are in his range but this is a HUDGE pot. i was VERY unsure about leading here.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $56.05
BTN: $10.00
SB: $50.00
Hero (BB): $61.00
UTG: $15.65
MP: $54.80

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with K K
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO raises to $1.10, 1 fold, SB raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $12.60, 1 fold, CO calls $11.50, SB requests TIME, 1 fold

Flop: ($27.95) 9 2 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $25.75, CO raises to $43.45 all in, Hero calls $17.70

i think i'm betting more like ~18 to induce a shove.
ur 4bet is also rather large i think i make it like ~9-10

ksight3, is my thought process correct in this deep stack situation?

hmmm i dont think i'd say "I'm never folding in a 4bet pot"

this is more like...I'm never folding when I 4bet and I hold KK on a 9 high non-connected board

i mean...i want all his chips in the middle somehow. If dat means potting flop do it.

Quickly skimmed your post, we're getting in KK vs anyone so 4betting and calling it off 100bb deep vs a tight player is fine and I'd be shipping in KK 200bb deep vs aggrotard.

Lead this flop for like halfpot he'll ship a LOT of worse combos here making it a little smaller will probably widen his shoving range. If he just calls ship turn.

Same as 1st reply
Four bet smaller. C-bet smaller to give some perception of fold equity.
Think his range is TT-AA. I would say AK, but dont think he ships the flop with that unless it is AcKc but you have Kc.
Id say he is more likely to play TT-QQ this way than AA.

I actually don't mind the 4bet size, this guy seems spewy and we're 200bb deep more in preflop is a big + for us especially since we will be playing oop. But yeh its not something to write home about.

pretty standard.. if he had AA you got coolered. He stacks off here with JJ and QQ as well if hes agrotard.

You should never felt a single pair deep in a single raised pot but given its 4 bet you have to call he has JJ+ you beat everything exept AA easy get it in spot IMO.

your lead on the flop is ridiculously large. so large that it makes yoru hand maybe look like JJ and i might like it

im more for a $15 lead to give the illusion of FE, snapping any raise, shoving any turn.

Fwiw, I won the pot scooping for 448BB ($112) making it the biggest pot I've ever won. Pretty sick!

lol what did villain have?

I like it, basically he is stacking off with any overpair in his range here, which is fine, but how can you get him to stack off w/ less, as someone said perhaps a smaller bet to induce a bluff shove from him may work if he doesn't have a hand he'd normally felt, like AK.

Actually, villain did have AA which shocked the hell out of me. I posted bc even though I won, I was curious just about deep stack play.

The turn and river clubbed up amd he had red aces. On the flop my money was going in v this villain regardless and I did not really think AA was a significant part of his range. TT-QQ and AJ+ was my thought.

I just played a hands on other tables amd when I looked back I had the pot. I had to look at "last hand" to see how.

V this villain I'm getting it in PF also. What do you guys do if CO shoves and SB calls? Or what if CO folds and SB shoves? We are always calling CO, right?

He is probably not shipping overcards over your psb in this pot deep UNLESS he reads you as weak as a bluff, I would say they are never part of his range, QQ+ I would say, and AA is always in his range. If he has been aggro he may flat preflop so you will stack off with worse, like JJ or QQ. Obviously KK vs AA is a cooler here.

edit: AKs type hands probably ship here.

When you raise to 12.50 you really have to think about what any sane person will be calling with. It really narrows the range a lot. AJ is probably never in his range, ever.

villian doesnt have AcKc, ducy? that being said i dont see why your discounting AA that much from his range. its still only taking 2 bets on teh flop to get stacks in, hes got position and you cold 4bet, what else couldnt he want besides no A on the flop?

just my read from our history made me discount it. Should it not be discounted? Even without history there are 2 other equally likely hands, JJ and QQ making it 2:1 against AA. And taking the previous history I discount it more.

Yes but your preflop raise is quite large for the stacks so you have to know he will call w/ the top of his range, which may include AA.

This. I would leave the table too barring some serious hidden value from some of the other seats! Tough to squeeze much out of 12/12 nits and 30ish/30ish who have your number!

Clearly, you can't discount AA when he calls that huge 3-bet. He's in a perfect spot to let you through a whole lot more chips into the pot. That being said, it doesn't really matter as you're never not getting in on that flop unless you're deeper.

flop bet size is pretty terrible.

i kinda hate his call preflop but what do i know, 25nl is nitty as hell.

so 2/3 PSB is a MUST in this situation? im not sure i understand why...

sure it gives villain illusion of FE but does he ever fold over pair here, even to a shove?

and against tighter villains i agree, but with this villain i need more info on 4bet pot play.

pretend for a second you would bluff here. would you prefer to bet almost your entire stack or some weird amount that pot commits you but doesnt put everything in?