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25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? 25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable?

01-02-2010 , 11:53 PM
Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $4.75
UTG+2: $9.35
MP1: $5.00
MP2: $27.35
CO: $5.00
Hero (BTN): $27.60
SB: $5.35
BB: $5.50

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with K A
UTG raises to $1.25, 3 folds, MP2 calls $1.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.75, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.50, MP2 calls $1.50

Flop: ($8.60) 4 3 8 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $4.75, UTG folds, MP2 calls $4.75

Turn: ($18.10) 5 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $8.25, MP2 raises to $19.85 all in, Hero calls $11.60

My PT3 is down, so I don't have stats on this guy. I played with him on two tables, he's multi-tabling about 12. My feel for him is fairly tight, but not aggressive. I've won hands against him before, heads up.

Questions:
Are my bluff bets too small?
My last call was based on pot odds, I had 9 outs to the nut flush, and 3 more aces to what i considered the nut at that point (I put him on a high pocket pair, but not AA or KK given his pre-flop play) Problems?

I was playing the opponent more than I was playing the hand in the beginning
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:32 AM
bump
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:41 AM
Pretty sure flop is a check behind on that board as 99-QQ is never folding flop most likely.

Also, when you bet the turn, its not a bluff when you call it off after he shoves.

I would c behind this flop a large majority of the time multiway and def not bet the turn as it doesn't really change anything for your hand.

99% of villains at 25nl aren't thinking about your hand range, they are thinking about the two colored pictures in front of them, therefore bluffing should not be a big part of your game imo.
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:43 AM
Preflop is butchered, what's up with the tiny raise?

As played, what exactly are you trying to achieve by the half-pot bet on the flop? All pairs are calling (other than 22) and you're likely against 2 tight players who are not going to show up with overcards often enough.
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:44 AM
You also have the results left in the title.
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:50 AM
On that flop you are NOT getting your villain off of any overpair. Think about it, you chose to 3bet an EP opener, making your perceived range KK+/AK. Once villain flats the 3bet, he is taking overpairs to showdown.

Therefore betting that flop is burning money. Since you have AK, villain can hold only 9 combos to a split, and JJ+ is 18 combos. If you cbet 1/2 pot, you are folding out the 9 hands that split and putting money in for the other 18.

Good luck getting anyone off an overpair in 3bet pots. I like a check behind in the flop and on that turn, call a reasonably sized bet if I believe I can profitably draw to my flush and 3-4 live overcard outs. (Villain can have KK/AA too. Thus not all pair outs are live.)
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:52 AM
i dont really mind the flop cbet, alltough i would make it a pinch bigger, you could fold out all setminers as they might put you on a very strong pair; but i would make that depending on the stats, without stats i rather check behind.

turn is a definite check (or even call now), whatever v called on flop he will call it on turn, and by pure chance we just got 9outs to the nuts plus 4 more where we are still likely to be ahead.
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashman
Pretty sure flop is a check behind on that board as 99-QQ is never folding flop most likely.

Also, when you bet the turn, its not a bluff when you call it off after he shoves.

I would c behind this flop a large majority of the time multiway and def not bet the turn as it doesn't really change anything for your hand.

99% of villains at 25nl aren't thinking about your hand range, they are thinking about the two colored pictures in front of them, therefore bluffing should not be a big part of your game imo.
this
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostik
On that flop you are NOT getting your villain off of any overpair. Think about it, you chose to 3bet an EP opener, making your perceived range KK+/AK. Once villain flats the 3bet, he is taking overpairs to showdown.

Therefore betting that flop is burning money. Since you have AK, villain can hold only 9 combos to a split, and JJ+ is 18 combos. If you cbet 1/2 pot, you are folding out the 9 hands that split and putting money in for the other 18.

Good luck getting anyone off an overpair in 3bet pots. I like a check behind in the flop and on that turn, call a reasonably sized bet if I believe I can profitably draw to my flush and 3-4 live overcard outs. (Villain can have KK/AA too. Thus not all pair outs are live.)
Thanks Bostik. That was a solid response. I agree with you on the flop. However, I put him on JJ or QQ, and I was trying to represent a higher pocket pair. This is not something I would do usually, but I've played him for a few hours on two tables, and I know he's not dumb. So I was banking on him to realize my strength and back down.

That said, I'm not saying this hand is played well, it is definitely not. Thanks also to others for replying

Last edited by PokerNoob7; 01-03-2010 at 07:30 AM.
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostik
On that flop you are NOT getting your villain off of any overpair. Think about it, you chose to 3bet an EP opener, making your perceived range KK+/AK. Once villain flats the 3bet, he is taking overpairs to showdown.

Therefore betting that flop is burning money. Since you have AK, villain can hold only 9 combos to a split, and JJ+ is 18 combos. If you cbet 1/2 pot, you are folding out the 9 hands that split and putting money in for the other 18.

Good luck getting anyone off an overpair in 3bet pots. I like a check behind in the flop and on that turn, call a reasonably sized bet if I believe I can profitably draw to my flush and 3-4 live overcard outs. (Villain can have KK/AA too. Thus not all pair outs are live.)
Forgot to ask, how bad of a decision is it to have done what I did at the flop? Trying to represent a higher pocket pair and make him back down that is. How likely would you fold TT-QQ to the cbet? Or to the turn bet?
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 09:24 AM
At these stakes, people never fold an overpair to the board ever in my experience.
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 05:29 PM
bump
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote
01-03-2010 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerNoob7
Forgot to ask, how bad of a decision is it to have done what I did at the flop? Trying to represent a higher pocket pair and make him back down that is. How likely would you fold TT-QQ to the cbet? Or to the turn bet?
You might get a solid villain off of JJ, IF AND ONLY IF he believes you would 3bet his EP open with QQ. (Goes into territory of setmining OOP in 3bet pots and making your life miserable on certain boards.) But none other than you can know whether that's true, and even then it will require two barrels, maybe even all three. That gets mighty expensive. But he's not folding on flop anything he called preflop with. The board texture makes that sure.

Also it might be good to remember that a mass-tabling regular will not call a 3bet with TT in UTG[+1, +2] out of position. At least not often enough to put that hand even in his range unless you're both suitably deep and the 3bet was small enough to offer very good setmining odds.
25NL KA vs. QQ blank flop, is this bluffable? Quote

      
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