One of my pet hates is playing JJ in the SB to a raise. This spot came up today against two tight players and a fish. Is this a setmine??? I am only asking about preflop, flop is an easy c/f.

UTG is 12/9/1.67 after 123 hands
CO is a fish at 35/13/1.38 after 69 hands
BB is 11/11/inf after 186 hands


Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $28.25
BTN: $30.45
Hero (SB): $25.00
BB: $25.00
UTG: $34.30
UTG+1: $30.90
MP1: $25.00
MP2: $39.90

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with J J
UTG raises to $0.75, 3 folds, CO calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.65, BB raises to $4, UTG calls $3.25, CO calls $3.25, Hero calls $3.25

Flop: ($16.00) T 5 8 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $21 all in, UTG raises to $30.30 all in, CO calls $24.25 all in, Hero folds

Turn: ($85.50) 2 (3 players - 3 are all in)

River: ($85.50) Q (3 players - 3 are all in)

Well, I think at this is a pretty good spot to set mine. You have to call 13BB to see a pot of 64BB, so your already getting 5 to 1 on your money. You pretty much need one C-bet to get the correct odds to set mine here.

On a side note, I really want to know what the villans show up with. I am actually tempted to think that shoving over the top all in might be a good play. BB could easily be squeezing here, and once UTG calls, I don't think they are wanting to get all in pre-flop. You might be flipping with half a stack thrown in the middle. I couldn't do it, but it was a thought.

Who squeezes with an tight utg raiser? I think its a value raise, I'd play for a set but thats it.

NH OP wellplayed.

not sure about the math preflop if u have odds to setmine or not, but the flop fold is good/std

def have odds to setmine... theres a full stack fish and a tight utg raiser. The hand plays out the same if the flop was Jxx. Nice hand

read it wrong fish came along after. But I still like setmining here to a tight UTG. Especially at 25nl there way more likely to stack off. And its multiway as well so if the CO is setmining too you can sometimes cooler him as well....

not sure i saw this mentioned, but we have 2 backdoor draws that may be good as well helping to call to see turn.

Why would you call all in on backdoor draws?

calling 3,25 to win ~35? seems like a fold pre once you get squeezed. yes the pot is 64bb and you only have to call 13bb but how often are you going to be good unimproved and how happy are you stacking of jack high boards with overcards?

Unimproved you snap fold.

Concerning overcards, there are 3 possible overcards, A, K and Q. Your opponent holds 2 of them, so 10 remain. There are 50 other cards (I'm not taking the other guys into account). 10/50 cards are overcards, two cards not counting your J, you're 16/25 to not get any overcards, or 64%. If you don't stack off with other overcards, your immediate odds are like 13 to 44, roughly, a little less than 3 - 1. You need another like 6 - 1, or 88 big blinds, to make this profitable. If opponent always stacks off, you're just about even here.

But, if overcards come you can probably still stack off, partially because most of the time they missed your opponent (only like 1/5 of the time an overcard comes does your opponent make his set) and partially because he could conceivably have AK (although that lowers your implied a good deal).

Considering that it's 4way, I think a call here is okay. Also, you're probably more likely to set over set an opponent than they are to do the same to you, since your JJ is almost certainly ahead of the non-3better's pocket pair, and those probably make up a lot of his range.

So yeah, I think the call is fine.

Concerning overcards, there are 3 possible overcards, A, K and Q. Your opponent holds 2 of them, so 10 remain. There are 50 other cards (I'm not taking the other guys into account). 10/50 cards are overcards, two cards not counting your J, you're 16/25 to not get any overcards, or 64%.

The above is not correct.

reraise preflop with JJ!

then if it gets 4bet you might be able to get away from this

Doesn't that turn my hand into a bluff against UTG's calling range?

I hate calling this to setmine; the odds are pretty crappy.

I call the initial bet from UTG to see a flop. Once the BB raises I'm gone.

Well played imo.

This - set mining OOP in 3bet pots is a leak imo

Agree 100% with you in a heads up pot but multiway with so much money in there already, the option to close the betting, and 3 players announcing they like their hand? Looks +ev to me given the already healthy pot odds combined with near assured IO if we hit.

as played prefl call is meh - i usually call these if i`m tilted, if fish has a very small fold to 3B i would 3B pre and play veery cautiously vs UTG if he cointinues, but this is a great spot to ISO fish with good hand, esp OOP cutting down SPR imo

Well here are the results:

BB had KK, I liked how he played it the most out of the three tbh.
UTG had AA I think he butchered it
and Fishy CO had QQ for the river suck out (he said 'thx afterwards lol)

This. You are putting 25% of your stack in PF OOP hoping to setmine? Yuck.

i'm not putting in 25% it's about $3.25 more to me which is 13bb so its about 1/8th

I think this is pretty terrible. You basicly have to get 1.5 of the other players stacks when you hit for it to break even.