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25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop 25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop

02-08-2010 , 11:31 PM
Table is fairly soft. Villian is 27/0/10 over 65 hands. Over the small sample he folds 71% to flop bet and 3 bet the flop 50% (1/2) and check raised the flop %25 (1/4). Turn stats are worthless.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $15.84
Hero (BB): $27.21
UTG: $17.13
UTG+1: $25.00
MP1: $12.35
MP2: $20.92
CO: $9.50
BTN: $34.28

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with J J
Hero raises to $0.85, UTG calls $0.85, 6 folds

Flop: ($2.05) 3 T 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, UTG raises to $2.80, Hero calls $1.40

Turn: ($7.65) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.50

What is his range and call, shove or fold?

NOTE: I AM UTG NOT BB. Converter messed up.

Last edited by gestch01; 02-08-2010 at 11:50 PM.
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-08-2010 , 11:39 PM
raise/call $8.50. he seems very passive pre and very aggro post. yea this could be like QQ+ or a set, but more likely its some Tx hand that he doesnt know what to do with.

also the converter screwed up the positions.
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 01:12 AM
Villain has tp way more than 44, which is pretty much the only hand you're worried about. I like c/r turn to commit him, the kinda guy who min-raises flop w/tp is going to bet turn, and it's often a small bet like this. I just feel like his range on this board has to be crushed by your overpair.

Last edited by markdirt; 02-09-2010 at 01:39 AM. Reason: Fixed some grammar.
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 01:38 AM
If I want to get it all in I shove the turn. There are too many river scare cards and tptk calls the shove as often if not more then a normal raise. The overbet comes off as a bad bluff rather then a valuebet. (I have shoved in these spots very often as bluffs and for value and get extremely weak calls including underpairs to the board). Calling should be for pot control or better reads, there is no need to raise and pot commit ourselves on a draw heavy when almost every river card is scary. I don't really think folding is a reasonable option but I have been wrong before.
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 02:59 AM
3b/call flop
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 04:54 AM
fold folop and its not close
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregGGhehe
fold folop and its not close

Would you please justify folding an overpair to a miniraise vs my c-bet?
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 08:59 AM
im getitng it in but not hugely happy about it. its a T as often or more than its a boat. donk love to min rr their tp to see where there at or coz they dont know what else to do with it, esp aggro donks like this one
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregGGhehe
fold folop and its not close
+1, this could well be a T but this villain pretty passive and is not aggro, this min reraise is looking for action.

You're behind the majority of the time imo
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 10:04 AM
A flop min raise often indicates a hand that your opponent considers the nuts. Althouh our micro opponents often severely over value hands, I doubt that he's making the mistake of thinking 10x is the nuts here.

-As he has aggro stats I can see calling the minraise, and then calling the turn as he makes it 1/2 pot. If we c-raise turn or three bet the flop here we're never getting it in with the best hand.

Re-eval river
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottonseed
+1, this could well be a T but this villain pretty passive and is not aggro, this min reraise is looking for action.

You're behind the majority of the time imo
Is this the general consensus to villians range due to his stats? The 71% fold to a flop bet?

I find it hard to fold over pairs to the board when the board isn't that drawy vs villians expected range playing out of position... I think I just answered my own question.
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 03:43 PM
On folding to the flop min raise:

Got it, if I see a reg at 25nl min raise %50 dry flops for immediate and massive profit with 72o. Raise 100% flops with 2 overs as FE + PE is so good it is better then having AA pre. And here I was thinking the big fish were the big fish. Please sit at my tables.

Maybe you are not reading PT stats correctly. 71% fold flop is due to the number of multiway pots he is in as he doesn't raise pf; this is heads up. 10 Agression PT stats is really really high, normal is 1-2. His check raise and three bet flop percent tells me he attacks weakness and over protects his hands. His mid pps are often good here and he will be making moves with overs + FDs.

Villian has a larger range then normal pf and he is going to be agressive on these flops as it missed my range and the only thing I can rep is set Ts and an overpair. If an a/k/q falls on the turn and he bets/raises I now expect him to have a big hand, but it pairs the board and he can now try to make me fold overpairs and two overs with FD. I think he will be betting any pair on this turn when checked to.
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gestch01
On folding to the flop min raise:

Got it, if I see a reg at 25nl min raise %50 dry flops for immediate and massive profit with 72o. Raise 100% flops with 2 overs as FE + PE is so good it is better then having AA pre. And here I was thinking the big fish were the big fish. Please sit at my tables.

Maybe you are not reading PT stats correctly. 71% fold flop is due to the number of multiway pots he is in as he doesn't raise pf; this is heads up. 10 Agression PT stats is really really high, normal is 1-2. His check raise and three bet flop percent tells me he attacks weakness and over protects his hands. His mid pps are often good here and he will be making moves with overs + FDs.

Villian has a larger range then normal pf and he is going to be agressive on these flops as it missed my range and the only thing I can rep is set Ts and an overpair. If an a/k/q falls on the turn and he bets/raises I now expect him to have a big hand, but it pairs the board and he can now try to make me fold overpairs and two overs with FD. I think he will be betting any pair on this turn when checked to.
So a high fold flop is due to him calling multiway pots? I'm just starting to learn what the VP$IP and PFR numbers mean. I haven't gotten to all of the stats yet.

He's going to have a wider range of hands due to the 27/0 over 66 hands?

With the AF at 10 do you expect him to keep firing at the pot with ATC?

I guess I'm not to this level of thinking yet...
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy3456
So a high fold flop is due to him calling multiway pots? I'm just starting to learn what the VP$IP and PFR numbers mean. I haven't gotten to all of the stats yet.

He's going to have a wider range of hands due to the 27/0 over 66 hands?

With the AF at 10 do you expect him to keep firing at the pot with ATC?

I guess I'm not to this level of thinking yet...
66 hands is a small sample but 27% vpip is high for full ring and never raising pf is very odd/fishy. He is going to price in others to come along if they don't raise to iso themselves. With three way or more flops you need a much stronger hand on average to continue then in a heads up pot. People are also much more honest about their holdings as fold equity is low.

I doubt he will double/tripple barrel with ATC, but on this flop his range has alot of equity against my range even after the flop action. How often he will capitalize on this is up for debate (this is not common at 25nl as most players are very weak tight and the min raise is almost exclusively TPTK+)

If agression is largely due to folding rather then raising it is slightly deceptive. This opponent has something as he is more of the fit or fold type but why type of piece he has, be it a small-mid pp, overpair, a set and or a FD draw with overs and the likelyhood of those holdings giving the action so far is what I am debating.
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 06:27 PM
I think 3b the flop to somewhere around 8, and get it in on the turn
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 06:29 PM
you are crushed. A loose passive min-raising? You can call in the hope you get a J on the turn, but let him have it otherwise. Maybe a call on the flop is alright, altough it's a minraise, its a pretty strong move for somebody who is loose passive
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote
02-09-2010 , 10:42 PM
the min raise bothers me alot in certian spots, but donks def do this with a T alot, and 99, A4 etc. if he called flop and min raised turn that would be v different

and he is loose and passive pre but v high aggression so he is aggro post. I know its a tiny sample but it is still an indication of his tendencies
25NL JJ as overpair and awkward stacks oop Quote

      
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