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25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain 25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain

10-28-2008 , 04:43 AM
UTG+1 had only played 20 hands but was 90/20/0.8
BTN was about 50/10/2 but again only around 30 hands
These stats are only over small samples, so don't mean that much, but they've both been playing a high % of their hands so I know they can be playing pretty much anything here.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $40.25
CO: $26.55
BTN: $62.40
SB: $24.05
BB: $25.00
Hero (UTG): $45.65
UTG+1: $10.50
MP1: $25.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with 6 6
Hero calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, CO calls $0.25, BTN raises to $1.50, SB calls $1.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.25, UTG+1 calls $1.25, CO calls $1.25

Villain had been playing a lot of hands PF but not raising so much so I put him on a half decent hand here so called hoping for the possibility to stack him.

Flop: ($7.75) 6 7 4 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, UTG+1 calls $3, CO folds, BTN raises to $8, SB folds, Hero calls $5, UTG+1 raises to $9 all in, BTN calls $1, Hero calls $1

Looking back at this, I think it was a pretty weak bet, should have probably bet much more to try and price out any draws. I got completely lost here and when I get reraised, despite it being a weak reraise I wanted to slow down. BTN and I were both very deep so I don't think I wanted to play for stacks on this board

Turn: ($34.75) 2 (3 players - 1 is all in)
Hero checks, BTN bets $13, Hero calls $13

I checked here to try a bit of pot control. If I led out and get reraised I wouldn't know what to do. The call I think is standard here due to it being such a weak bet into such a large pot.

River: ($60.75) 5 (3 players - 1 is all in)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Again hoping for some pot control on a bad river card.

I'm really not sure how I handled this hand. I think I may have butchered it. The fact that BTN and I were so deep I think made me a bit more cautious and the wet board scared me off from playing for stacks. Does anybody get it all in at any point here?
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 04:55 AM
i ship the turn
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 05:01 AM
i ship the flop
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 07:00 AM
Why don't you want to play for stacks on a wet board? This is the perfect board to stack somebody with an overpair who thinks you're pushing your draw. Villains range here is much larger than 85/53 or 77, the only hands that beat you here.

First of, if you're going to lead here, you need a MUCH bigger bet since the one you did now gives any 5, any spades or any other straight draw good chase odds. I like the lead though, you don't want it checked around to let a scare card hit.

When you get raised it's the best thing that could have happened. BTN probably has an overpair or 2 big spades, I think UTG+1 is shipping a draw (could be medium pair though) since he's short and against two people.

You have to raise here IMO. Any card which doesn't give you a full house is scary and any spade/8/5/3 completes a straight making villain that much more scared if he has an overpair. You have little more than a PSB behind. Ship the flop!

I can see calling flop and then shoving turn, but then you're slowplaying and definately not folding even if the 5 hits.
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 07:06 AM
Turn is beyond horrible, lol at even thinking about pot control in this situation...
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 07:37 AM
Yeah, I'd say you're flop bet was pretty bad. I'd only ever use this less than half the pot bet only as a pot sweetner when I had close to the nuts. I'd overbet the pot and look to get it all-in asap.
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 01:05 PM
Looking back at the hand, I realise now how badly I played it. I don't know what the flop bet was about, I never usually make bets like that, might have misread the action. I'm still getting used to 25NL so maybe it was the amount of $ at stake that threw me off.
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 01:30 PM
Congrats on moving up. You will get used to the amounts of $$$ quick and I agree it looks scary to play for stacks this deep if you used to put in just 10$ when you play for stacks. But still, as others pointed out already, there's not much that beats you and there's a lot you have beat. So jam it in.

What did the other deep stacked guy showed?
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriswitteman
Congrats on moving up. You will get used to the amounts of $$$ quick and I agree it looks scary to play for stacks this deep if you used to put in just 10$ when you play for stacks. But still, as others pointed out already, there's not much that beats you and there's a lot you have beat. So jam it in.

What did the other deep stacked guy showed?
Thanks, I think it would have taken a lot longer if it wasn't for you HH review. Despite hands like this I am owning 25NL over my first 1500 hands there, running at 30ptbb/100, let's see how long I can sustain that for!

The other deep stacked guy showed QQ, which looking back through was quite obvious and everybody else seems to agree too. The other guy had A9o!?!
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexB182
Turn is beyond horrible, lol at even thinking about pot control in this situation...
Another reason for you to write a pot control PSA or pooh bah IMO.
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocksavage1
Another reason for you to write a pot control PSA or pooh bah IMO.
Either that or at least try to explain your reasoning behind the criticism. I posted the hand because I figured I played it badly and wanted advice because I am a relatively inexperienced player. Just telling me how badly I played but not why I played it badly does not help.
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 05:32 PM
pop the flop, ship the turn

you have 180BBs to get into the pot, gogogogo
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocksavage1
Another reason for you to write a pot control PSA or pooh bah IMO.
I actually started to write that post today though I'm already afraid it might be REALLY long in the end...I hope it won't take to long to get it done but I hope you guys have some more patience with me...

OP: there are several reasons why pot control should not be applied in this spot (all of which I'm going to cover in my post ;-) ) so I'm just going to name them here:
1) (and most important) your hand is way too strong here to go for pot control here esp given PF action
2) board is drawy: it's unlikely btn is drawing here but if he is we obv want as much value from his drawing hands as possible as long as he actually is still drawing
3) pot size: pot is already way too big to consider using pot control as there is less than 1 PSB (given effective stack sizes) left with 2 streets to go.

Oh and btw pokerron: if you just thought about this on your own for a minute or two then I'm pretty sure you could have figured this out on your own...
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote
10-28-2008 , 06:54 PM
Didn't read any replies. Like you said, bet more on flop($6-7), get it in on the turn. Villain shows up w/ JJ+ here vv often.
25NL Flop a set on a wet board against deep Villain Quote

      
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