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25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? 25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew?

03-14-2011 , 05:02 PM
First hand at table HUD wasnt up yet...

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
SB ($25.99)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($15.72)
UTG+1 ($61.22)
CO ($25.76)
BTN ($26.28)

Dealt to Hero K K

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.25, SB calls $1.50

FLOP ($4.50) 4 7 T

SB checks, Hero bets $2.50, SB calls $2.50

TURN ($9.50) 4 7 T K

SB checks, Hero checks

RIVER ($9.50) 4 7 T K J

SB bets $12, Hero...

He overbets river kinda wierd but what do you guys think?
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:05 PM
sorry but can we get to the serious question needing to be answered itt

why did we check the turn
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:07 PM
yah sorry i timed out...it was a mistake...forgot to include that..
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:09 PM
I'd flat, 89 got there and suited connectors make up a big part of his range, flop is super dry etc

i guess he can easily have a set here too but i'm a nit^
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:12 PM
what about combos of AK and possible 2pairs?
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:18 PM
Shove ainec.

1pr/2prs/lower sets, plus our line looks FOS. What do we lose to that he cc the flop with? 89? Oh well. Jammmeroooooo!
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:23 PM
Too bad about the turn, I would shove only because there are alot of sets, two pairs, and one pair hands that could pay you off that make up his range. Only one hand that beats you and if thats the case oh well.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:38 PM
I think this spot is pretty close and I've changed my mind back and forth a few times. Right now I'm leaning towards flatting. Here's a pretty wide range to start with:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
39 trials (Exhaustive)
board: T74KJ
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KdKs48.72% 190
AQ, 98s, AK, JJ, TT, 77, 44, KJ51.28% 200

Obviously he isn't going to have all the AQ and 98s combos here, but the same could be said for all of the hands we beat. AK/JJ/TT are 4betting pre sometimes, 77/44/KJ are folding pre sometimes, and AK can maybe find a fold on the river after an overbet gets raised. I think if we discount everything appropriately we still come out pretty close to the equity above, in which case we should call, but I'm open to criticism.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xn2x
yah sorry i timed out...it was a mistake...forgot to include that..
Lol, I just don't believe that

Please tell me you fell off your chair because you hit the nuts.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepaul1
I think this spot is pretty close and I've changed my mind back and forth a few times. Right now I'm leaning towards flatting. Here's a pretty wide range to start with:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
39 trials (Exhaustive)
board: T74KJ
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KdKs48.72% 190
AQ, 98s, AK, JJ, TT, 77, 44, KJ51.28% 200

Obviously he isn't going to have all the AQ and 98s combos here, but the same could be said for all of the hands we beat. AK/JJ/TT are 4betting pre sometimes, 77/44/KJ are folding pre sometimes, and AK can maybe find a fold on the river after an overbet gets raised. I think if we discount everything appropriately we still come out pretty close to the equity above, in which case we should call, but I'm open to criticism.
You forgot JTs, and I would remove AQ because I don't think he's cc the flop with that.

Edit: and if we include KJ, we should include KT.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 05:55 PM
sigh no but it was my fault as there was something going on that was pretty distracting around me but instead of closing down I tried to get a few more hands in without poker having my 100% attention....big mistake.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xn2x
sigh no but it was my fault as there was something going on that was pretty distracting around me but instead of closing down I tried to get a few more hands in without poker having my 100% attention....big mistake.
Yup, but it's all good. In any case I still think this is a pretty clear shove.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 06:14 PM
OK, I changed my mind back to shoving. I def agree with including JTs and I think we should discount AQ more heavily than JJ/TT (but not entirely, maybe keep AQs only?). KJ can represent KJ/KT half the time if you want. I still think it's very close and neither decision is a big mistake.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 06:46 PM
my thinking was he could have any set, some 2 pair hands and the only thing i was really afraid of was 89s as I could not see him c/c AQ OTF...after overbetting the river like this I can never see him folding any of his value hands even AK so I shoved for value but after thinking about it more wasn't sure if this was good so came here.

I agree all could have been avoided if I had barelled the turn again also..
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 06:53 PM
Shoving the river, would say bet turn but that has already been beaten to death.

Curious what everyone would do with 44/77 here.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 07:36 PM
Quote:
Curious what everyone would do with 44/77 here.
Bet the turn
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-14-2011 , 10:18 PM
given the action i like a flat on the river.
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote
03-15-2011 , 01:12 AM
shove
25NL Can we shove this river for value or is this spew? Quote

      
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