I think villain has AA/KK and is worried that hero has QQ/JJ because that's mostly what 25nlers are calling 3b with. So he bets the flop, checks the turn in case hero has JJJ, hero checks the river so he def doesn't have a set and villain goes for value.

Hero raises. 'How often does anyone have the patience/discipline/stupidity to c/r rivers with a set' says villain. "he could also have diamonds probably". Villain calls.

Really??? With AA you'd c/c flop, check again turn and after he's already checked behind OTT you check again OTR hoping he will bet so you can crai .... in a 3b pot? I can maybe see c/c flop and check again OTT but if he checks behind OTT you lead this river 100% with OPs I think.

I don't think your line reps much here. OTOH, I think villains line also looks like whiffed overs stabbing at dead money ... but I feel like you get called often enough to make it marginal at best.

A hand that checks back the turn can almost never call a river c/r. Thats simply a fact

ur probably right, but if we can't differentiate between what people should do and what they actually do then we're making their "mistakes" profitable for them.

fact?

6% 3b range from the sb on a J high board means he is firing his entire range otf.. by the river i think his hand now contains air + medium strength hands hence why i would lead half pot or check raise AA/KK/QQ/JJ instead of betting turn etc....

I think you're more worried about defending your play in this hand then realizing that your goal should be to get the chips in the middle while you have the most equity. You're equity won't get any better than on the flop.

I'm still trying to understand the logic behind check raising the river with any range of hands. If it's value, then why would you check the river in a situation where you can't really expect the villan to bet. If it's a bluff, again, you can't expect the villan to bet, so your missing your opportunity to bluff.

^^ cause i think my ak has showdown value, it was not only a river check thinking everytime he checks back i lose & when he lead for half pot i thought nothing in his range whether air or medium strength hands could call a shove... & the reason i didnt check raise the flop is the same reason i did not 4bet pre, i did not want to 4bet call vs AA/kk and did not want to shove with a flush draw into kk/aa & i think the rest of his range plays str8 forward ott & river... if i did not put alot of air into his range i would not play my hand this way... either way i think i should of just folded pre or played my hand the same way except fold river

the post was about what are your guys range for checking turn and half potting river & what is the worse hands you call a river shove with

I think check jamming the river here with QQ-AA if hero has it, would be a pretty nice play.

I get what your post is about. I just don't think either of your lines make any sense. I don't see what hand he can bet check bet, and I don't see what value hands you would check the river with after the villan checks the turn.

Now, I do get that you have SDV, and are checking the river to take it. And I get that you are check raising as a bluff because you think the villan will fold often enough.

What I don't get is why you would take that line with a value hand.

^^ just to get more value from his air or marginal holdings like kj/aj/qj/10's etc... if i fast play a set of jacks here vs a range that is not consisted of AA/kk/QQ then i think i lose value from his air bluffing into me hence why i would not* check raise the flop if i was lets say slow playing preflop

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker Hand Converter from PokerConverter.com

saw flop

Hero (SB) ($25.60)
BB ($10)
UTG ($25.35)
UTG+1 ($30.02)
MP1 ($28.09)
MP2 ($26.49)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($20)
Button ($28.29)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, 2
6 folds, Button bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.65, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.25) 2, A, 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button bets $2, Hero calls $2, 1 fold

Turn: ($6.25) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($6.25) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3.75, Hero raises to $9, Button calls $5.25

Total pot: $24.25 | Rake: $1.19

example of times i have done the same play with value hands

There are two very large distinctions from this example, and the OP.

1.) This is not a 3bet pot.
2.) This board is super dry.

Also, I think the c/r on the river is bad. We have a set, put some money in the pot.

OK, lets look at the example above. I'll ignore that your set mining OOP as I am assuming you have a good enough read to make it profitable.

I get checking the flop. But the villan just bet a dry A high board into 2 players. Either he has an A or he is going to be one and done (unless you have a specific read). The way you played it you made $9 extra.

But what if we lead the turn for $4 and then lead the river for $10? I mean any hand that is going to call a check raise on the river should be calling a turn and river lead, and may very well shove over the top of our turn lead, plus the lead lead line looks a hell of a lot less strong than going for a river check raise. I think we will get a lot more calls with this line, plus we make over 50% more.

Also, this is a much different situation. In the first hand we are in a 3 bet pot, where a bet check bet line is pretty unusual. In the second we are in a 3 bet pot where the bet check bet line is very unusual.

FYP

Simply stating what a person more intelligent than me said.