Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Hero (BTN): $56.00
SB: $26.35
BB: $25.00
UTG: $22.90
MP: $47.70
CO: $26.60

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with 6 7
UTG raises to $0.85, MP calls $0.85, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.85, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.50) 8 9 J (4 players)
BB bets $3, UTG folds, MP raises to $12.50, [color=red]Hero ????

RAISE. and call a shove.

Raise ldo. I'm not sure what the question is here.

This is a pretty ugly spot 200 BBs deep. Do you have any reads at all? Did you see how the other player doubled his stack?

If your going to raise here, you might as well just shove since once you raise your committed to this pot.

None of your outs are to the nuts either way here, so I am not sure that I want to get it all in here. Your straights need to be discounted somewhat because a ten gives anyone with a Q a better straight. The more I think about this hand the more likely I am to fold it without a read that one of the players is a donk.

I'm folding here

No way this is as clearcut as 'raise and call a shove'. Yes we have an awesome draw in that it's a FD +OESD, but given the action and the board, your hand isn't actually as strong as it seems.

BB donks quite strong on a soaking wet flop. Could be AJ, could be a dominating draw that is looking to b3bai. Could be a set/2 pair/straight. MP is not messing about though. With you still to act he has a good made hand or a dominating draw everytime.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

82,170 games 0.005 secs 16,434,000 games/sec

Board: 8d 9s Jd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.451% 43.78% 00.68% 35970 555.50 { 7d6d }
Hand 1: 55.549% 54.87% 00.68% 45089 555.50 { JJ+, 99-88, AdKd, AdQd, ATs, KdQd, KdTd, QTs, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 5d4d, ATo, QTo, JTo }

This range includes the optimistic AT and 5d4d, and you're still in bad shape. Given you probably have very little fold equity your huge draw isn't actually worth that much. And this is just a range for MP. We still have BB to act behind us.

I certainly wouldn't be looking to get 200BBs here.

lol, i'm villain AGAIN.

this should be fun. btw, i thought hero played his hand well.

Totally agree with Baintz here. Really ugly board (a T gives you the sucker end of the straight on a 4 straight board, Qx(dd) might be very well possible), plus the action in front of you. A set or at least 2 pair from one of the villains is very possible, BB and MP look VERY strong in a multiway pot, given their action.

The profitability of playing combodraws storng comes from foldequity. You have almost NONE FE given the actions of the villains. The 2nd aspect, wich makes combodraws profitabily is, that you almost invested some BB in the pot and you need only like 30-40% Equity in case the villain calls. But here, you need 50% equity, because you have nothing invested, and one of them will call/shove over your raise for sure. And if some of them has a set, you only have 40% equity, which makes a raise highly -ev.

I'm perfectly fine with pushing this on a 89K board with one villain for 100 BBs. But given the circumstances (nothing invested, not so nice draw, strong villains, mwp, 200 BB deep) I fold this pretty fast.

I don't get these guys who always think "ZOMG I has combodraw, I arrrrrrin" without even thinking for one second about it.

I obv shoved, but was almost questioning it because he could have a made straight +fd , or some other hand + a better FD.

Without any information about how they play postflop its sooo difficult. In a vacuum i think i'd fold. No FE and no nut draws. But i am not sure if it is the best play.

BB or MP?

MP (I'm supposing)

i'm MP in this hand.

BB was rather weak-tightish postflop, but opening with a rather wide range preflop. you might want to take that into consideration.

I think you do have FE here. We know MP has shown a lot of strength, but what about BB? If we raise/shove here, we could induce BB to a fold and greatly increase our equity against a lone opponent.

Can someone advocating a shove breakdown the logic behind why they are shoving here?